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A point of clarification on the use and misuse of iTrader?

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  • A point of clarification on the use and misuse of iTrader?

    Hi guys,

    I have tried flicking through the forum rules and guidelines on this matter but cannot find any mention of it within these threads or indeed the forum so please excuse my ignorance if this has been covered previously.

    What is ZeroIn's official stance on the misuse of the iTrader feedback function? As we know iTrader is a valuable resource in mitigating instances of fraud or scams with classified sales in vetting the reputation of potential sellers or buyers. In my eyes iTrader should be used in instances of when a trade or transaction occurs at some form of contractual level, i.e. payment for goods or services and/or delivery.

    It should not be, for instance used in a pre-emptive capacity or for the purposes of spite or revenge in the event of a transaction not going your way.

    For instance, if no money has changed hands but the buyer and seller have come to a disagreement, is it justifable for the prospective buyer (and I stress the word prospective) to leave that user negative or neutral feedback, despite the transaction not reaching the point of contractual obligation (in effect still being an 'invitation to treat')?

    A mere point of curiosity for me really which I would appreciate some insight.

    Olphy.
    - GHK AK74MN - GHK AUG A1 - Secutor Gladius 17 - WE MG36 HPA -

  • #2
    Re: A point of clarification on the use and misuse of iTrader?

    Def not for revenge or spite, got to be when the deal goes pear shaped, which is most likely when the goods don't turn up or do arrive but aren't as advertised.
    Sure, there are times when you deal with a messer, someone who promises payment for weeks only to waste your time & let you down, I had one last year but the system wouldn't let me hit her with negative feedback, me being the seller, even though I was severely pissed.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: A point of clarification on the use and misuse of iTrader?

      Why I always tell them that it's theirs when the money is in my paypal. Never promise to hold stuff for people. Its never happened yet, but if I get two payments for something I don't see a problem with refunding whoever was second.
      As for vindictive feedback, I'm sure a mod can sort it out for you?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: A point of clarification on the use and misuse of iTrader?

        Never intended for spite or revenge. But surely it's there to let others know what kind of a person they're dealing with. Its absolutely ridiculous to expect a seller to wait weeks for payment but surely there is a reasonable time to give someone to pay, giving that some actually work and can't be at their computer all the time. If a seller can't wait for payment before moving on to second on the list then he must really be desperate for money. Always like to think there's some kind of decency and honour in most folk but maybe I'm wrong. Surely feedback would let others know about those who agree a sale and then move on in a few hours, just as much as buyers who agree sales and never pay. Is that not what feedback is for? Just what is a reasonable time to wait for payment?
        "Praise the LORD, who is my rock. He trains my hands for war and gives my fingers skill for battle." Psalm 144:1

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: A point of clarification on the use and misuse of iTrader?

          I'm just trying to think what other transaction there is in life where you could expect someone to hold an item without any security. A day or so maybe as a favour, telling any other interested parties that they have first refusal if things don't pan out, would be the furthest I go and only then if they asked nicely. I've had two individuals get as far as "ok, what's your paypal?" and then not go through with it this week alone. One actually had the grace to send a message a couple of days later to say he'd decided against, which was the first time anyone's ever had the decency to do that. Perhaps its that most of what I sell is relatively low value so I get more timewasters?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: A point of clarification on the use and misuse of iTrader?

            I think it comes down to a case-by-case thing.
            In some cases, while no money has been exchanged, a serious time-waster may lead to other potential buyers being lost, or the buyer missing out on other people selling the item in question. In which case, I think negative feedback is kind of justified. They've proven to be poor to deal with, even if there wasn't an exchange of money/goods at the end of it.
            And in other cases, the deal simply doesn't work out, or one or other party has some genuine reason for dropping out (unexpected bill, loss of item or whatever) and in that case, it's unfair to damage their reputation for something that is just an unfortunate fact of doing business. sometimes sales just don't work out.

            The problem is the huge grey area in the middle. what one user views as reasonable, another might view as unacceptable time wasting. and that's where things can get tricky.
            Not actually a builder
            Not actually called Bob.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: A point of clarification on the use and misuse of iTrader?

              Originally posted by Figjam View Post
              Why I always tell them that it's theirs when the money is in my paypal. Never promise to hold stuff for people
              I think that's the way to go moving forward, the whole 'first refusal' thing is far too sketchy for me and I have lost too many sales in the past by doing so.
              - GHK AK74MN - GHK AUG A1 - Secutor Gladius 17 - WE MG36 HPA -

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: A point of clarification on the use and misuse of iTrader?

                Originally posted by bobthebuilder View Post
                In some cases, while no money has been exchanged, a serious time-waster may lead to other potential buyers being lost, or the buyer missing out on other people selling the item in question. In which case, I think negative feedback is kind of justified. They've proven to be poor to deal with, even if there wasn't an exchange of money/goods at the end of it.

                The problem is the huge grey area in the middle. what one user views as reasonable, another might view as unacceptable time wasting. and that's where things can get tricky.
                My point exactly. Grey area indeed but a reasonable time to pay should be allowed. If someone is say at work and can't pay until they get home, surely that's reasonable and should be given time. Seller moving on in just a few hours is not. The feedback system let's us all know what kind of person we're dealing with; either a time waster or someone who just can't wait for payment and moves on.

                - - - Updated - - -

                Originally posted by Figjam View Post
                Why I always tell them that it's theirs when the money is in my paypal. Never promise to hold stuff for people.
                That's all fine, but surely allowing someone reasonable time to pay, isn't holding it for them. The decent thing I'm sure is to allow some time to pay?
                Last edited by keithhibbert; 6 October, 2014, 22:29.
                "Praise the LORD, who is my rock. He trains my hands for war and gives my fingers skill for battle." Psalm 144:1

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: A point of clarification on the use and misuse of iTrader?

                  lol, I'm not a monster. That sort of thing is fine in my book.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: A point of clarification on the use and misuse of iTrader?

                    http://forums.zeroin.co.uk/showthrea...ding-on-ZeroIn

                    When asked about an item via PM, get an assurance that the user in question will buy the item when a deal has been reached. Then you have grounds to leave neutral feedback if the user drops out of the deal. I recommend printing each PM.
                    If a sale has not taken place, then negative feedback should NOT be left no matter how much they 'wasted your time' (that its self can be partially your fault as well as theirs).

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                    • #11
                      Re: A point of clarification on the use and misuse of iTrader?

                      I am firmly of the opinion that feedback should only be left when the sale has reached the point of payment being exchanged, this whole business of 'letting people know what kind of seller they are' is extremely subjective and frankly wide open to interpretation and abuse; if someone spits their dummy you are basically giving them a right to unfairly slander you before even allowing yourself the opportunity to demonstrate you are a good seller. That's just not cricket in my eyes.

                      You buy, they dispatch, it arrives as stated, you leave feedback. It should be as simple as that.
                      - GHK AK74MN - GHK AUG A1 - Secutor Gladius 17 - WE MG36 HPA -

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: A point of clarification on the use and misuse of iTrader?

                        Neutral feedback doesn't effect feedback score, it is simply a note on the iTrader profile for people who read it before purchasing.

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                        • #13
                          Re: A point of clarification on the use and misuse of iTrader?

                          Originally posted by Olphy View Post
                          this whole business of 'letting people know what kind of seller they are' is extremely subjective and frankly wide open to interpretation and abuse; if someone spits their dummy you are basically giving them a right to unfairly slander you before even allowing yourself the opportunity to demonstrate you are a good seller.
                          Surely all feedback is subjective and open to abuse. If you're a bad seller in the buyers eyes whether by the goods you sell or how you choose to do your deals, they're as entitled to their opinion as you are to defend your 'reputation'. If that was their experience then it's not slander. A sellers reputation is built up by how they treat buyers and do their deals. Opinions will always be opinions.

                          Your opinion of a buyer 'spitting the dummy out' as you put it is exactly that; the opinion you are entitled to also an perhaps as unfair as your own. It's as subjective and open to abuse, just like the buyers.

                          - - - Updated - - -

                          Originally posted by Rampage View Post
                          http://forums.zeroin.co.uk/showthrea...ding-on-ZeroIn



                          If a sale has not taken place, then negative feedback should NOT be left no matter how much they 'wasted your time' (that its self can be partially your fault as well as theirs).

                          So then is neutral feedback an accepted practice an appropriate when someone agrees to buy an item and the seller goes ahead and sells to someone else before the first buyer has had the opprotunity to pay? (we're talking a few hours here)
                          "Praise the LORD, who is my rock. He trains my hands for war and gives my fingers skill for battle." Psalm 144:1

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: A point of clarification on the use and misuse of iTrader?

                            Originally posted by keithhibbert View Post
                            So then is neutral feedback an accepted practice an appropriate when someone agrees to buy an item and the seller goes ahead and sells to someone else before the first buyer has had the opprotunity to pay? (we're talking a few hours here)
                            If you want the item you have to pay, if you take 'a few hours' to pay and the seller wanted a quick sale then who's loss is that?

                            In that instance (as with all) it depends entirely on your prior communications with said seller.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: A point of clarification on the use and misuse of iTrader?

                              While the feedback system is generally excellent, especially when reasonably large amounts of money can be changing hands, its not perfect, even people with a reasonable amount of feedback sometimes "try it on" if they think they can get away with it.
                              Case in point, I sold something recently, left immediate feedback as a thanks for payment, but nearly 2 weeks later my feedback had not been reciprocated, so I chased it up.
                              Buyer responded by stating my item was faulty & he wanted a full refund.......WTF.
                              Thing is, not only had I made a video of the item working perfectly (something I'd never done before but something in the buyers cocky attitude previously displayed in his earlier PM's made my Spidey senses twitchy).
                              Plus a week previous a buddy had given me a heads up that the buyer was already trying to sell it on FB, stating it was in gwo or something similar.
                              Now this told me that me that he prob didn't really have the cash to be spending in the first place, & was prepared to Muller the item to back up his claim, having threatened me with neg feedback.
                              Needless to say I was pretty pissed having already given him good feedback, & there lies another issue:
                              How long should you wait before leaving feedback, or who should leave it first ?

                              Comment

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