Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Zero One Ads

Collapse

*G&P Sentry with BTC Spectre Build* (which Internal parts to get with it?)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • *G&P Sentry with BTC Spectre Build* (which Internal parts to get with it?)

    Hey all, I have a Stock G&P Sentry that i got really cheap and want to make a super reliable build for friends to use it to try out the airsoft. I have £225 budget for internal parts and was lucky enough to get a BTC Spectre Mk II last week when they came back in stock.

    BTC £87
    Lonex Piston Red £16
    Lonex 16:1 gears £37
    Lonex Piston head (aluminum) Or is POM better? £15
    Lonex Cylinder Head £13
    Prometheus Steel Shims FREE
    Airlab Sorbothane Pad FREE

    Total: £168
    £57 Spare for motor? Cylinder? Nozzle? Tappet plate? or are these G&P parts fine left stock? I don't know much about them. Any other parts worth changing on G&P?

    Currently at 315fps and fine with that, trying to keep under 330 for CQB limit.

    Thanks! any help would be appreciated.
    Tokyo Marui - Recoil 416
    Full Prometheus Internals --- BTC spectre --- Rhop --- EDGI barrel --- KOA Service

    Tokyo Marui - L96 AWS
    Full PDI Internals --- Full Laylax/PDI externals --- Rhop --- EDGI barrel --- KOA Service

  • #2
    Re: *G&P Sentry with BTC Spectre Build* (which Internal parts to get with it?)

    The rest of the internals are fine, I would get a shs black high torque motor for around £35 of eBay

    - - - Updated - - -

    Aluminium head will give you a louder crack sound,so pom if you want it quieter or aluminium for a louder report

    - - - Updated - - -

    And use a spring guide with bearings
    VICTORIA CONCORDIA CRESCIT


    LOOKING FOR: S&W N-frame holster
    trader feedback http://forums.zeroin.co.uk/itrader.php?u=5191

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: *G&P Sentry with BTC Spectre Build* (which Internal parts to get with it?)

      If you're going for a fairly low stress, reliable build there's nothing wrong with the stock G&P parts. 16:1 gears are a waste of time as they are actually 17.28:1 compared to stock 18.35:1.
      Providing non of the stock parts are worn, pair them with an ASG CNC 40k motor running on 7.4v lipo. You'll need the active braking of the Mosfet to prevent overspin. An M95 spring should get you just under 1J with good air seal. This will give you a snappy trigger response and a solid 20rps with good shimming.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: *G&P Sentry with BTC Spectre Build* (which Internal parts to get with it?)

        Thanks for the input! This is just what i needed. I'm sending this to a tech to fit everything, shim etc.. so only want to do it once. Everything inside could be very worn (its 8 years old, "gearbox never opened") thats my only worry. I just want anything that has a chance of breaking replaced, and then not have to worry about it or have to send it to another tech for a few years.

        For the piston head, I don't really want it to be loud. but is the POM piston head any less reliable than the metal one? As thats the number one priority.

        The gears, I only picked lonex because they are strong for the price and i dont think they do 13:1? I looked at SHS for that reason of 13:1 but was told Lonex will last longer if thats my focus.

        The motor, this shs one or ASG 40k? are they both high torque ?

        thanks!
        Tokyo Marui - Recoil 416
        Full Prometheus Internals --- BTC spectre --- Rhop --- EDGI barrel --- KOA Service

        Tokyo Marui - L96 AWS
        Full PDI Internals --- Full Laylax/PDI externals --- Rhop --- EDGI barrel --- KOA Service

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: *G&P Sentry with BTC Spectre Build* (which Internal parts to get with it?)

          If it's 8 years old then the grease will be hard and so will any seals. And God knows how many rounds it's fired. If you're doing a complete refresh then you might as well do it properly. If you want reliable on a budget without compromising performance then consider ;

          SHS 7 tooth piston
          Lonex POM piston head
          SHS cylinder head and single O ring nozzle
          Modify M100 spring
          ZCI bearing spring guide
          Bushes and shims
          SHS tappet plate (or whatever fits in the shell)
          Clean up existing cylinder.

          With the power system the SHS Hi torque with 13:1 gears or the ASG CNC 40K with 18:1 gearing would be hard to tell apart. Neither really need the expensive Mosfet, but the 40k motor would benefit from active braking although it's unlikely to overspin to the point of a double shot even on a freshly charged battery. The SHS torque/13:1 will be perfectly happy on a £10 Firestorm Mosfet, but it's a slightly less refined motor, doesn't run quite as smooth as the more expensive ASG.

          I run both these set ups in two different guns. They both run like champs, are fun and quick to use, snappy and 20-22 rps, using as a very rough guide 1mah of battery per shot pulling less than 20amps.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: *G&P Sentry with BTC Spectre Build* (which Internal parts to get with it?)

            Yeah but he's got a spectre on its way, so it would be rude not to use it
            VICTORIA CONCORDIA CRESCIT


            LOOKING FOR: S&W N-frame holster
            trader feedback http://forums.zeroin.co.uk/itrader.php?u=5191

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: *G&P Sentry with BTC Spectre Build* (which Internal parts to get with it?)

              Yeah, but this is supposed to be a loan gun. Save the BTC for something really nice!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: *G&P Sentry with BTC Spectre Build* (which Internal parts to get with it?)

                If that's the case you really should be saving the spectre for your own favourite gun
                VICTORIA CONCORDIA CRESCIT


                LOOKING FOR: S&W N-frame holster
                trader feedback http://forums.zeroin.co.uk/itrader.php?u=5191

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: *G&P Sentry with BTC Spectre Build* (which Internal parts to get with it?)

                  Make that an M95 spring to suit your CQB limit...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: *G&P Sentry with BTC Spectre Build* (which Internal parts to get with it?)

                    I would suggest a SHS Blue all metal rack
                    providing you don't go nutz getting close to Pre Engagement all metal SHS will be fine

                    I just found the plastic teeth on 3 & 7 metal toothed pistons strip really easy in a snappy gun
                    No PE but they strip quick I found, tried a couple of times coz they are really light
                    But they stripped in under 10k so went with full metal rack shs blue

                    Metal rack is fine as long as you know your limits and don't do daft stuff like clear jams by holding down full auto
                    A SHS full metal rack piston is still lighter than a Lonex red or blue
                    Just plain old SHS blue piston - no need for lightened version - remove bearings on piston head will save weight too
                    Hence why SHS pistons are very popular - but perhaps avoid the 3/7 metal teeth if you building it with some snap

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: *G&P Sentry with BTC Spectre Build* (which Internal parts to get with it?)

                      Ones at around 20k and still running OK, but I'll keep an eye on mine.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: *G&P Sentry with BTC Spectre Build* (which Internal parts to get with it?)

                        The ratio is as said also incorrect, or rather very poorly rounded down. The actual ratio of the SHS set is 17.28:1, it was SHS's obviously poor attempt to clone the Prometheus high speed set (also flawed in another area, but more on that later), but they did not transfer the design of the upper part of the spur gear from that set, but rather kept to the one used with stock ratio sets, as such, the final ratio is nearly 5% slower than the product it was supposed to be based on. This isn't a huge problem, but it kind of makes the upgrade less purposeful.

                        For better piece of mind/less chance of spontaneous failure, I would suggest avoiding any set from SHS unless you swap the included 10 tooth bevel gear out for a decent quality 9 tooth equivalent gear (ZCI is an ideal low cost replacement but will offer significantly better durability by design), or if you have a little more cash then you could go for the RiotSC version. The 9 tooth bevel will further alter the ratio, however if you opt for pairing with the 13:1 set, the final ratio will come out at just over 15:1, which is not far from your original target ratio but with far superior durability.

                        If you are doing the installation, as per any part but in particular SHS, check for defects. The SHS gears throughout all generations will need closer checks on the sector gear bolts, just ensure that they are locked down tightly with a decent threadlocker.


                        Other parts;
                        Lonex red is a decent piston, but its also heavier than most, if you are keeping the main spring rate low, you may want to loose a little weight from that and or increase the cylinder port size to help reduce chances of pre-engagement issues.

                        As said by sitting duck, the SHS 7 tooth, or any of SHS pistons that rely on the Nylon being used as part of the rack gear are not suitable for recommendation in a high performance build, the piston design is superior by design, at least at the back end, but that composition of GR nylon is just not suitable for increased loads or high speed - It turns into cheese at high speed (even with timing issues ruled out) for anything over 1j in my experience.
                        The SHS FMR is a great tried and tested low cost solution to many high performance builds, but will require the rack to be bonded to the body for best reliability - They do not fare well to PME issues if dropped stright in, and if timing issues occur (more common with lower rate main springs and heavy pistons + high cycle rate) then you would potentially end up with an expensive mess if a part of the rack breaks away from the body and finds its way into the gear train.

                        Personally, unless high loading is required in the initial stages of the stroke (high fps and DSG), I would opt for a half plastic rack piston made from decent materials such as the Prometheus Hard, and perform the required AoE modifications to that. That way, you have better structural integrity at the back end, and better impact loading resistance on the pickup stage (the most common area to fail). The composition of POM used in Promy's hard piston is very impressive, far more durable than that of the GR Nylon that is used in the 3/7 toothed SHS blue/purple pistons teeth.
                        If cost is a factor here, these are several times more expensive than an SHS FMR piston, so if you are prepared to lock down the SHS rack, and have a suitable mains pring then the SHS will be more cost effective and have comparible or better durability.

                        Piston head - Aluminium is generally more durable, but the POM will be lighter. POM is usually the better option, Polycarbonate is as with pistons the material you want to avoid.

                        Motor - The ASG 30K, SHS HT (both 16T) with decent strength Neodymium magnets are good choices. Have a read here; http://forums.zeroin.co.uk/showthrea...HS-High-Torque

                        Tappet Plate - Have had a few G&P's fail in the past, so if your model is old, it may be worth taking precautions if you have budget for it. The Prometheus Tappet plate has a more reliable design and materials, But Lonex is also good. SHS is good, but you run a higher chance of a lemon with these, usually molding defects.

                        I would put any remaining funds into a decent Lipo pack, not the typical underferforming and overpriced nonsense that is found at most airsoft stores, but rather something that can hold a line under load and not break the bank. RC derived packs are what you should be looking at.
                        Last edited by sj_asc; 28 April, 2017, 09:20.
                        dsgdreamteam

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: *G&P Sentry with BTC Spectre Build* (which Internal parts to get with it?)

                          Originally posted by sparrowhawk View Post
                          If that's the case you really should be saving the spectre for your own favourite gun
                          My favorite gun Already has a Next gen BTC spectre in it this is a Spare and the G&P is the only standard v2 gearbox i have~ So ill either use it in this or sell it on :D
                          Tokyo Marui - Recoil 416
                          Full Prometheus Internals --- BTC spectre --- Rhop --- EDGI barrel --- KOA Service

                          Tokyo Marui - L96 AWS
                          Full PDI Internals --- Full Laylax/PDI externals --- Rhop --- EDGI barrel --- KOA Service

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: *G&P Sentry with BTC Spectre Build* (which Internal parts to get with it?)

                            Thank you for the detailed replies! I personally won't be doing the installation as a BTC is involved, so may as well get an experienced tech to do everything ;P
                            After speaking with many other techs, I decided to save money on stuff like cylinder etc and put it into the Motor, So here is my updated list:

                            BTC £87 (Protect Trigger contacts and also because why not :D)
                            Lonex Piston Red £16 (Seems to be the Strongest all rounder and possible swiss cheesing if needed? Couldn't find Prometheus one )
                            Lonex 16:1 gears £37 (I was tempted by the SHS 13:1 but as said by a few techs, unless im going for a high ROF (which im not), its better to go with Lonex to avoid getting a lemon and strength or just keep the stock G&P ones and save money)
                            Lonex Piston head aluminum £15 (Would rather the extra bit of strength over the sound)
                            Lonex or prommy Tappet plate (w.e i can find in spares, had a few somewhere)
                            Kingdom of Airsoft Custom Action Army Motor £75

                            Prometheus Steel Shims FREE (supplied by tech)
                            Airlab Sorbothane Pad FREE (supplied by tech)

                            I already have a ton of very good Lipos 7.4's and 11.1 for my TM 416 recoil. So i can just use one of those.
                            Going to leave the spring stock until all the seals have been improved as that may bring it from the 315 to the 325 mark anyway.

                            Total
                            £230, £5 over budget I can live with

                            Any objections or something obvious i have missed?

                            Thanks!
                            Tokyo Marui - Recoil 416
                            Full Prometheus Internals --- BTC spectre --- Rhop --- EDGI barrel --- KOA Service

                            Tokyo Marui - L96 AWS
                            Full PDI Internals --- Full Laylax/PDI externals --- Rhop --- EDGI barrel --- KOA Service

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: *G&P Sentry with BTC Spectre Build* (which Internal parts to get with it?)

                              You could save yourself £25 by going with the ASG 35k motor. With the Lonex gears and a 7.4v lipo that should get you a sturdy 23-24 rps and nice trigger response. The CNC ASG motors are very nicely built, with excellent magnets and a properly machined, balanced armature. No blobs of epoxy. The pinion has meshed nicely with the three different manufacturers gears I've tried.

                              Comment

                              About the Author

                              Collapse

                              cynical Find out more about cynical
                              Working...
                              X