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  • Crown Servants....

    Before any sarcy replies, I am an experienced Airsofter and not trying to bad mouth UKARA or the VCRa.....and I'm not trying to find a legal loop hole....but....

    Paragraph 5 of the VCRa provides a number of defences to the manufacture, importation, sale and modification of RIFs.....one of these being 'Crown Servants'

    The definition of Crown Servant in the Official Secrets Act 1989 states that any member of any naval, military or air forces of the crown, as well as any constable appointed for the purposes of any police force

    What are your thoughts on this??.....
    DTW in a CTW body with systema barrel and hop for sale....open to offers for quick sale!! ***may be interested in a swap for PCP air rifle***

  • #2
    Re: Crown Servants....

    its to allow them a defence for purchase as part of their JOB - nothing more - it could also extend to any civil servant purchasing in pursuant of their job - i.e. a police purchase clerk or mod employee buying 'training' weapons for use by their employers

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Crown Servants....

      As I read it, the RIF would have to be used for; as the Act defines this defence "(f)the purposes of functions that a person has in his capacity as a person in the service of Her Majesty."

      So you have to be buying it to use in official duties, which I imagine would involve official authorization.
      "Praise the LORD, who is my rock. He trains my hands for war and gives my fingers skill for battle." Psalm 144:1

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Crown Servants....

        Training purposes, yes. That is the main reason.
        Problems? Problems? There is no problem I cannot solve with this...

        ++ Attributed to Mad Chainsword Johnson, Commander of the White Scars ++

        "Systema owners are easily startled, but they'll soon be back and in larger numbers"
        Obi-Wan Kenobi

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        • #5
          Re: Crown Servants....

          you would need a purchase order, same as buying as a theatre company, offical letter etc. its silly but whats sillier is that with an FAC proving the gov trust you with a real gat you are not trusted with an airsoft rifle.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Crown Servants....

            Bumping this to the top. Seems we may have forum members who are relying on their service status to entitle them to purchase a RIF.

            EDITS - just popping these links in found by googling "crown servant airsoft".

            http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question...5035803AAxI18A -
            In English, as a soldier you can purchase a RIF, but only if it's for military use, such as training exercises. You cannot purchase a RIF for personal use.
            From the UKARA website -
            I am a member of the Armed Forces can I buy a RiF?
            There are no exceptions to the legislation for members of any of the services, the crown servant section refers to purchase for the crown by crown servants not individuals. Service personnel are still required to become a member of an insured Airsoft Site or Club to be eligible to purchase RIF's. The same can be said for shotgun licences etc. they are not a valid defence.


            Please get in touch if you want general help. Please report problematic posts.

            Take responsibility for your choices. If you break any rule in life, you should be held accountable.

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            • #7
              Re: Crown Servants....

              taken from the first point of UKARA's FAQ

              I am a member of the Armed Forces can I buy a RiF?

              There are no exceptions to the legislation for members of any of the services, the crown servant section refers to purchase for the crown by crown servants, not individuals. Service personnel are still required to become a member of an insured Airsoft Site or Club to be eligible to purchase RiFs.
              Khathar hunnu bhanda marnu ramrod It is better to die, than live a coward



              http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/...if?w=275&h=157

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              • #8
                Re: Crown Servants....

                Just noticed the above reply......unfortunately it was taken from the Ukara website, so it is only their opinion, having read, learnt and understood the VCRa in conjunction with other relevant firearms acts it does not elaborate the crown servant requirement.

                So as such it is down to interpretation of the retailer.
                DTW in a CTW body with systema barrel and hop for sale....open to offers for quick sale!! ***may be interested in a swap for PCP air rifle***

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Crown Servants....

                  It is not down to the interpretation of the retailer at all. There are numerous definitions of crown servant in use (definied by things as diverse as HMRC's internal guidance right through to the Official Secrets Act 1989, and a whole load more besides). For purposes of the VCRA, it is considered that Crown Servants have a defence if the sale/manufacture/import is for purposes required by their employment as a crown servant. In other words, Bob works for DE&S and buys replica guns in the course of his job for training by MoD. That is legal and 100% above board. However, he would not be allowed to purchase them for himself.

                  Regards, James (15 years as a crown servant in various government departments)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Crown Servants....

                    Originally posted by dth1
                    I am an experienced Airsofter and not trying to bad mouth UKARA or the VCRa.....and I'm not trying to find a legal loop hole....but....

                    Originally posted by dth1
                    it was taken from the Ukara website, so it is only their opinion....

                    So as such it is down to interpretation of the retailer.
                    So you're not trying to bad mouth them, but, they're wrong....... ?

                    And you're not trying to find a loophole, but you think this is a loophole........ ?



                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                    WE G39C GBB | ARES G36K EBB

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Crown Servants....

                      Originally posted by dth1 View Post
                      Just noticed the above reply......unfortunately it was taken from the Ukara website, so it is only their opinion, having read, learnt and understood the VCRa in conjunction with other relevant firearms acts it does not elaborate the crown servant requirement.

                      So as such it is down to interpretation of the retailer.
                      Really? It seemed pretty clear in the vcra text that the purchases had to be for the purposes of their role as a crown servant.

                      Only areas of debate I can see would be around the extent of who constitutes a crown servant (e.g. where do external contractors stand).
                      Not actually a builder
                      Not actually called Bob.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Crown Servants....

                        Just so everyone is clear, the wording of Section 37 of the VCRA is that someone will have a defence against prosecution if they are selling, manufacturing or importing a RIF in order to provide it for:

                        "(f) the purposes of functions that a person has in his capacity as a person in the service of Her Majesty."
                        102nd Chairborne Rangers - "Intelluctus VCRAus recte"

                        Keyboard Commando - "He who argues until the other person gives up and goes away wins"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Crown Servants....

                          I do not need a loophole, I have not been on the UKARA database since 2009 as it's not necessary, I only purchase new Airsoft rifles from my local retailer who knows I am a regular Airsofter, the topic was initially bought up because another retailer told me that as a crown servant my employment offers me a defence.....so I wanted to hear others opinions.

                          As for UKARA, they offer a great tool to allow people to purchase Airsoft RIFS, but when people stop getting hung up on them and realise it's not the only defence then the hobby of Airsoft will be better for it.
                          DTW in a CTW body with systema barrel and hop for sale....open to offers for quick sale!! ***may be interested in a swap for PCP air rifle***

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Crown Servants....

                            It doesn't apply to a singular person.
                            section 24 of the 1968 Act
                            Supplying imitation firearms to minors
                            1)It is an offence for a person under the age of eighteen to purchase an imitation firearm
                            2)It is an offence to sell an imitation firearm to a person under the age of eighteen.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Crown Servants....

                              You are only a Crown Servant when acting in your role as a Crown Servant.

                              Same way some one with a Blue Light ticket is only allowed to break certain driving laws when they are working, they do it on their own time they have no defense against prosecution.

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