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Thread: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

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    Default Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    Celcius are releasing many new guns in the near future, as STTS haven't posted anything on here, thought i'd do it on their behalf. Pulled of our forum:

    They all have improvements on the MX2 / Team alpha. The MX3 and Team Alpha 2 have:


    NEW ECU Fitted – Selectable Which Allows 3 Round Burst & Fully Automatic In The Same Weapon
    NEW Strengthened Sun Gear Fitted
    NEW Hop Chamber To Give A Better Air Seal
    S-T-T-S Upgraded stainless steel air nozzle fitted
    NEW Design MOSFET Unit Fitted

    They also have the new typhoon 2 style motor. This is all good, and the MX3 is RRP £729.99 and the Team Alpha 2 is RRP £567.89


    The most interesting thing is the CTW Ghost.

    This gun is so carefully made the factory is only able to make 4 per month.
    Specs:

    Specifications:


    Calibre: 6mm BB
    Action: Semi & Full Auto OR Semi & 3 Round Burst (Selectable))
    6.00mm Sniper Grade Reformation Barrel III (Stainless Steel) with unique Pressure Balancing System
    MX-3 DP-System™ MOSFET board with Gold-Plated conductors
    Muzzle Velocity: 330-350 FPS with an M90 Spring (fitted as standard)
    Gear Box: CTW Planetary Gearbox with reinforced gears
    Motor: CELCIUS 495 Typhoon III Motor with Cooling Fan and Gold Plated Base
    Magazine: 2 x 120 Rounds High Speed Magazine
    CNC manufactured Steel Outer Barrel
    Steel Outer Case Magazine
    Reinforced Polycarbonate Piston
    Military Grade Hand guard and Stock with leather cheek pieces
    Weapon Length: 620-800mm
    Barrel Length: 285mm
    Weight: 3300g

    Recommended Batteries: 300-400FPS – A LiPo 11.1v 1200mAh 20C battery
    450-500FPS – A LiPo 11.1v 2400mAh 20C battery

    Also in the box:


    An instruction manual and safe weapon handling guide on CD
    An exploded parts diagram on CD
    BB Speed Loader
    Cleaning Rod
    S-T-T-S Warranty Card – This must be completed and returned to register
    S-T-T-S User Guide
    Celcius ‘Stand Fast….. Fight Hard’ Velcro Unit badge

    What interested me most about the ghost is the motor with cooling fan

    Thats got to be a first?

    Anyway, all the best,

    CK

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    Electric Rifles & SMG's Sales Thread: Systema, Systema, Systema

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    Quote Originally Posted by Queboo12 View Post
    Electric Rifles & SMG's Sales Thread: Systema, Systema, Systema
    I've noticed that too, and the prices have come down a little too.

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    I think unless Systema start offering free hookers who can fire ping pong balls outta their backsides with every gun, their position in the hierarchy of manufacturers is going to take a bit of a battering in the near future!

    I need two of those programmable ECUs in my life...

    Any news on release dates?

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    Mid July is the release estimate, more information can be found on the CTW forums.

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    damn you celcius does this mean out team alphas are out of date after only 2 months of being released.......... hope the new mx3 parts are compatible with the old mx2s

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    It is my understanding that the MX3 is the MX2 with all the upgrades factory fitted... no need to return it for warranty work.

    (plus a few extra toys such as the programmable ECU)

    Anybody able to confirm/deny this???

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    The list of differences is above in the first post. New mosfet, new ecu, new hop, FCC sun gear, air nozzle (that the TA1 has) and a new motor. AFAIK the only one of these offered as a free replacement for warranty holders is the sun gear.

    The specs of the ghost are the most impressive, STTS say the parts will most likely not be available for individual purchase, and STTS will probably only have parts for warranty replacements.

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    Whatever the individual differences, i am 100% pro CTWs.

    I think they are playing it pretty savvy, a full range of CTWs with varying upgrades, all compatible.....

    Buy a cheaper gun if initial funds aren't too hot, and upgrade to what you do want as time goes by. I am pleased to part of the CTW revolution... my wife on the other hand is less than pleased!

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    Any idea on the price of the Ghost?
    Problems? Problems? There is no problem I cannot solve with this...

    ++ Attributed to Mad Chainsword Johnson, Commander of the White Scars ++

    "Systema owners are easily startled, but they'll soon be back and in larger numbers"
    Obi-Wan Kenobi

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    Yup RRP £1599.99

    CK

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    Ooooh. It is going to be special then.

    Difficult, difficult... 416TA2. At last!
    Problems? Problems? There is no problem I cannot solve with this...

    ++ Attributed to Mad Chainsword Johnson, Commander of the White Scars ++

    "Systema owners are easily startled, but they'll soon be back and in larger numbers"
    Obi-Wan Kenobi

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    Sorry...... F£&^(&$ HOW MUCH?

    All the crap i have given PTW owners over the cost of their shooters and now this?

    Tell me this thing is made from dragon blood and unicorn tears and fires special 6mm hens teeth or something...

    Ahh well, time to put up an ebay listing... For sale: 1 x kidney..........

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    It is made from the tears of systema owners...And fires broken dreams of glory.
    Problems? Problems? There is no problem I cannot solve with this...

    ++ Attributed to Mad Chainsword Johnson, Commander of the White Scars ++

    "Systema owners are easily startled, but they'll soon be back and in larger numbers"
    Obi-Wan Kenobi

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    The ghost is specially built, the process is so intricate that it takes a month to build a mere 4 of them in the factory. These are not mass produced rifles...

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    The full post from STTS REF the ghost.

    Please find below details of the latest CTW weapon platform to be launched from Celcius. The MX-3 Ghost is THE Training Weapon for 2012 and beyond.

    Available to pre-order from ******************, they are expected to be in UK stock by the end of June / early July and will be available in both CQB and M4A1 formats.

    PLEASE NOTE that due to the extremely high tolerances used in the MX-Ghosts construction there may be a delay in supplying the items as there is already a lot of interest from both airsoft players AND Police / Military units alike:

    The MX-GHOST Training Weapon is the ULTIMATE Training Weapon in the Celcius line up.

    The manufacturing process for the production of the MX-3 GHOST is so strictly controlled with regards to the quality of each part combined with the hand fitting limits production to ONLY 4 guns a month. The weapon is based on high quality CNC processing, assembling, and stringent quality control with each piece being carefully inspected, tested, meticulously detailed, and assembled by hand.

    Each weapon comes complete with a 24 Month Warranty for complete piece of mind.

    Only £1,599.00 complete with a UK-backed 24 month warranty

    Specifications:

    •Calibre: 6mm BB
    •Action: Semi & Full Auto OR Semi & 3 Round Burst (Selectable))
    •6.00mm Sniper Grade Reformation Barrel III (Stainless Steel) with unique Pressure Balancing System
    •MX-3 DP-System™ MOSFET board with Gold-Plated conductors
    •Muzzle Velocity: 330-350 FPS with an M90 Spring (fitted as standard)
    •Gear Box: CTW Planetary Gearbox with reinforced gears
    •Motor: CELCIUS 495 Typhoon III Motor with Cooling Fan and Gold Plated Base
    •Magazine: 2 x 120 Rounds High Speed Magazine
    •CNC manufactured Steel Outer Barrel
    •Steel Outer Case Magazine
    •Reinforced Polycarbonate Piston
    •Military Grade Hand guard and Stock with leather cheek pieces
    •Weapon Length: 620-800mm
    •Barrel Length: 285mm
    •Weight: 3300g

    Recommended Batteries:

    300-400FPS – A LiPo 11.1v 1200mAh 20C battery
    450-500FPS – A LiPo 11.1v 2400mAh 20C battery

    Also in the box:

    •An instruction manual and safe weapon handling guide on CD
    •An exploded parts diagram on CD
    •BB Speed Loader
    •Cleaning Rod
    •S-T-T-S Warranty Card – This must be completed and returned to register
    •S-T-T-S User Guide
    •Celcius ‘Stand Fast….. Fight Hard’ Velcro Unit badge

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    Sold!

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    Quote Originally Posted by CK View Post
    The list of differences is above in the first post. New mosfet, new ecu, new hop, FCC sun gear, air nozzle (that the TA1 has) and a new motor. AFAIK the only one of these offered as a free replacement for warranty holders is the sun gear.

    The specs of the ghost are the most impressive, STTS say the parts will most likely not be available for individual purchase, and STTS will probably only have parts for warranty replacements.
    I'm guessing (or hoping) that once the Ghost has been out for a year or so, and once they have ironed out the bugs that the motor, and other ghost only parts will become available to everyone. Just a feeling, and I might be wrong but it does make sense, as sooner or later someone will copy it if it works as advertised.

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    This is going to sound like a bit of a plum question, but given the new release of the MX3 etc, how are the CTW's fairing in comparison to PTW?

    The reason I ask, is that in the process of sorting out a new PTW, I wonder if the merit is now worth it by comparison. Forgetting the difference in price, is the CTW still a clone with issues, or is it a warranted purchase instead of a PTW?

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    AFAIK the mx2 has no more issues than a PTW 2012. And at least STTS are upping the anti with FCC sun gears and improved barrels and air nozzles.

    That being said, they have many of the same faults, motors being the main one, but STTS are looking for solutions to those problems as well, not just leaving them for Tack to charge a large amount of money to sort. (Well earned money on his part of course.)

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    MX3's aren't out, so can't comment on those, but the latest MX2's are fairing quite well with the PTW's.

    The Celcius is a clone of the PTW, so they have some of the same problems that the PTW has. The UK dealer has slowly been improving their CTW's and have sorted out one or two of the issues. Namely the hop and the barrel are better on the CTW. I think the elecrtics are better too, still could do with moisure proofing, but I don't think it's as big a deal. You also get a warrenty with a new Celcius, you don't with a Systema.

    One area that the CTW hasn't improved on the Systema yet is the motor, it still has the same problems as the PTW. I'm hoping that the new MX3 motors are better. I also think that the general build quality and fit and finish are slightly better with the Systema. Systema owners tend to have a low opinion of the Celcius, if that's important to you.

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    THe MX3 ECU and fet board are supposed to be better than a PTW, I'm unsure about vs etiny though.

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    That sounds pretty promising and certainly in comparison of price.

    How are they both performing in terms of accuracy / range / rof etc?

    In addition, is there a specific release date of the MX3?

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    If you want to repair the motors then I'm not being funny go to any place that deals with remote control cars and ask them to replace the commutator and the bushes and rewind it, this saves you having to replace the bloody thing also the hop, my new 2012 hop is fine without any hop modification it's hitting man sized targets at 70m if I need to hit someone further away then guess what? I get closer.If they really want to make it better then the systema then why haven't they altered the hop design? surely changing it to a type which can be adjusted through the ejection port would be better than a grub screw.


    One thing I don't see them doing is shortening the fet board or even trying to shrink it down to the point were it's even smaller than the FCC or Etiny versions and having this as a standard feature, the stock tube, why is there still a bloody commercial spec tube? surely if this is a training weapon then it should have a mil spec tube?. Also I see the gold contacts as a gimmick, I can tap out full auto on my ptw albeit a slow full auto, by increasing the sensitivity you don't gain any real significance since the gains are going to be negligible and for what a doubled cost.

    As to the electronics how many owners have had there electronics burn out didn't CK say that his electronics were fried? I don't think they're any better since the systema ones have worked just fine. I don't see how they can improve on something which already works quite well

    Also the first reply was going on about an abundance of sales threads regarding systema's because of this. really? so what your saying is when the nissan gt-r came out every ferrari and porsche owner stuck their car up for sale because something cheaper came along that did the same thing? No I'm not going to stick mine up because last time I checked it worked and it worked well.

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    Many sound points there TOBI, but i think you may be missing the main one Celcius are trying to get across.

    In business and customerterms, Systema are the enemy. If they can can offer a cun with more toys, gadgets and gizmos on, for less price, the customer base will sway over time towards the CTWs. I imagine they have a three year model for this, as is common in business.

    I have read contradicting things about the contacts, some say silver, some say gold. I personally hope it is silver. Silver is the best electrical conductor bar none, and is cheaper than gold... gold is excellent, but purely a gimick in terms of sales patter.

    I own a MX2 and a MX2-TA. I love them both, but i will be watching these with interest as i have no aversion to adding another to my wall.

    If you told me 20 years ago Skoda would be making decent cars i would have laughed at you. After a rough time of it and a few redesigns, they are taking a decent portion of the performance car market. The Octavia RS is definitely a contender. Within a short while, i believe this is the way Celcius will go. At the moment they are largely an unknown and in the same way the Octavia was when iwas first released, seen by many as a risky option as previous attemps have been horrific failures, but these new guns have been based on your tried and tested Systema PTW with some improvements on that.

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    Quote Originally Posted by loki7491 View Post
    Many sound points there TOBI, but i think you may be missing the main one Celcius are trying to get across.

    In business and customerterms, Systema are the enemy. If they can can offer a cun with more toys, gadgets and gizmos on, for less price, the customer base will sway over time towards the CTWs. I imagine they have a three year model for this, as is common in business.

    I have read contradicting things about the contacts, some say silver, some say gold. I personally hope it is silver. Silver is the best electrical conductor bar none, and is cheaper than gold... gold is excellent, but purely a gimick in terms of sales patter.

    I own a MX2 and a MX2-TA. I love them both, but i will be watching these with interest as i have no aversion to adding another to my wall.

    If you told me 20 years ago Skoda would be making decent cars i would have laughed at you. After a rough time of it and a few redesigns, they are taking a decent portion of the performance car market. The Octavia RS is definitely a contender. Within a short while, i believe this is the way Celcius will go. At the moment they are largely an unknown and in the same way the Octavia was when iwas first released, seen by many as a risky option as previous attemps have been horrific failures, but these new guns have been based on your tried and tested Systema PTW with some improvements on that.
    You've missed my point though going on about skoda's if you owned say an M5 which is a comparable car would you go and sell it to buy a skoda which no doubt does the same thing at a fraction of the cost? No you wouldn't unless you had taken one to many blow to the head.

    Also the ghost is pointless increasing the trigger response by replacing the contacts with gold is pointless since you don't improve the skill of the end user.

    What Improvements though? the thicker roller packing that they put in the hops wasn't found by them it was systema owners, the rewinding and replacement of motor components was done by Tack, the shortening of the fet board was done successfully by TacK, you still get guns failing under the warranty the only difference so far is that all of the components on the gun fail but you get them replaced for free I don't see this as better but more as a PITA, my ptw hasn't skipped a beat I've not had any issues with anything other than the motor which got repaired for £80, my electronics have never faltered nor has my gearbox, so that renders any warranty as moot, in my eyes celcius have done sweet FA. so in conclusion if celcius want to beat systema they need to.

    1. change the hop design to something far easier to adjust a variation of the vsr hop would be a good start.
    2. rewind and replace the commutators on their motors as standard.
    3. replace the stupid commercial spec buffer tube with a cut out for the battery wiring.
    4. shorten the fet board even more than the etiny and FCC versions.
    5. make their cylinders smaller so you don't have to buy a systema cylinder if you want to use a prime upper.

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    Absolutely i would not sell an M5 to buy a VRS, but if i was buying new and could get comparible performance for £15k less, i would be a fool not to.

    I am not expecting Systema owners to sell up and switch to CTWs. I am expecting "virgins" to buy the CTW instead of the Systema (for the most part that is - you will of course still get the Systema PTW or nothing crowd... at least until next year when they shut up shop and stop production! - only duty rumour, no hard facts... i don't know their bank manager or anything)

    Warranty being rendered pointless just because your gun has not suffered expensive failings seems a bit of a bold statement. I would suggest you have been lucky. All elcto-mechanical devices have a failure rate, it is a fact of life. Yours has lasted well, the next one off the line may have lasted 10 mags or 10 months, the free warranty offered with CTWs is peace of mind for the owners not as blessed as you with a very reliable gun out of the box.

    With regard to Tack and Systema owners discovering certain mods, that was never in dispute... if anything, it is kinda the point. These guns are coming pre-modded... with the warranty to boot! Your £80 motor repair would have cost you at worst £50 assuming you paid £25 each way for postage or at best a couple of quid if you lived near enough to drop the gun off and collect it in person.

    PTWs are great bits of kit. That fact is not in dispute.

    A PTW with factory fitted mods and a warranty, for less money is an even better deal though and one i am sure you would jump on (assuming you were going to buy another gun anyway)

    The trade off for the price difference is the name, a few minor differences and the fact that Systema and their loyal customers have done most of the research and development on behalf of Celcius and thus kept the production costs down. (for which i thank you all )

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    Quote Originally Posted by TOBI View Post
    You've missed my point though going on about skoda's if you owned say an M5 which is a comparable car would you go and sell it to buy a skoda which no doubt does the same thing at a fraction of the cost? No you wouldn't unless you had taken one to many blow to the head.
    I know what you are trying to say but cars are completely different to air soft guns, you're not going to get a good analogy. The closest thing we are going to get is the what happened to the price of the TM guns after China started making good clones. Yes the TM guns were still better, but not by much, and certainly not worth the massive premium they were asking.

    Also the post about abundance of sales threads regarding PTW’s, I was just passing comment, as before I bought my CTW I was looking to buy a PTW, and I’ve noticed that there are a hell of a lot more PTW’s coming for sale recently, and that the price has dropped considerably. I’m not offering any comment on it, I’m just saying that’s it’s happening (on this site at least).

    Quote Originally Posted by TOBI View Post
    1. change the hop design to something far easier to adjust a variation of the vsr hop would be a good start.
    2. rewind and replace the commutators on their motors as standard.
    3. replace the stupid commercial spec buffer tube with a cut out for the battery wiring.
    4. shorten the fet board even more than the etiny and FCC versions.
    5. make their cylinders smaller so you don't have to buy a systema cylinder if you want to use a prime upper.
    Agreed with all of these points, it’s hard to say with any certainty if these are not included with the new MX3’s because they aren’t out yet and we are going off only the information that has been released. I will pass on these points to the UK distributer, because what ever you think of Celcuis the UK distributer is great and is listening to what we are saying.

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    I never said I sent my motor to Tack just that he developed a solution to the problem which is now easily accessible to many infact he even tells you how to do it on his forum any good RC car shop can do it for you and that's including postage, the electronics are fine I know guys with 07 models that have yet to have any trouble with their electronics that's 5 years without a hiccup I think the saying if it ain't broke don't fix it comes to mind.

    Al I don't have a problem with celcius but having seen a friend with one of these who's sent his back twice now once for the new gear and the other time because his mosfet board went haywire I don't have confidence in them the only thing their motors have over the systema motors is I can get two for the price of one systema.

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    Sadly, because none of us are privvy to the failure rate figures for either product, this debate will pass back and forth with only snap shots of information and never the whole picture.

    I would like to see (in my fantasy dream world) a graph or table comparing the units sold versus the failure rate for each product.

    I suspect the total numbers would be similar for three reasons:

    1. Systema have sold more units as they have been about longer - so there is more chance of failure
    2. Celcius will have suffered teething problems in the early stages - so there is chance of failure

    The fundamentals are this though:

    * In a skirmish situation, performance differences are negligible. RoF, range, accuracy etc are all in the same area. They will vary from gun to gun, but all in the same bracket.
    * Like for like models have CTWs coming in at circa 40 - 50% cheaper than PTWs
    * You get a warranty for failed parts with Celcius

    Under lab conditions one gun may prove more accurate out of the box, or have an extra few feet of range, but on the skirmish site, those small differences for either gun are hardly noticeable - once the guns hit the field in a head to head, it is down to the guy with the trigger finger.

    As we do not play in a lab (and nor can i sample sufficient guns from each brand to give you an out right winner) I can have the same performance as you for considerably less cost. At the end of the day, money is King and airsofters are sick to the back teeth of being ripped off. The Chinese clone market took off for a reason - similar performance for less money.

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    You can't have the same performance since my rewound motor is better fact. Your hop hasn't been modded in the same way I've modded my hop so you might have more or less range, although when I took it out the last game I managed to play with my ptw despite heavy wind and .28g bb's I was hitting man sized targets at 70m.

    besides give it a few months and you lot will all be sticking Tac's super hop in your gun and be thinking stt....who

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    How much is this fabled "2 and a half years in the making" tack hop mod?

    Because I know how much a complete cnc machined purpose built one is going to cost from stts, one for a ptw, one for a ctw, and I bet you its going to be half the price of a bedroom bodge i'd bet both my ctw 416 and my ptw 07 on it!

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    As a complete outsider to this thread (I own neither a PTW nor CTW) but going on what I have read throughout the internet and the experiences I have had borrowing a PTW I would buy a CTW MX3 over a PTW if the reviews are good. As mentioned earlier in here, for those that are not loyal to a brand or don't own a PTW the CTWs are just too cheap to pass on.

    The ghost certainly looks interesting. Being on such a limited run must meen room for custom builds if you need something specific, say different springs fitted at the factory on order?
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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    springs take seconds to fit matey, regardless of price or platform, its a perk of the ptw/ctw platform

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    I am pretty sure a rewound motor and a modded hop do not count as out of the box, like for like.

    I can show you a Ford Fiesta that would rip the arse off of an M5 or an AMG Merc, but as it wasn't bought straight from the dealership i can't sit here and say Ford Fiestas are faster / more powerfull / better accellerating than a BMW M5... A one off modded gun cannot really be classed in the same argument as mass produced out of the factory, which is precicely what this discussion is about.

    I could mod a springer pistol to out range your PTW... i would need the strength of a pissed off silver back to cock it and it would probably explode after a couple of shots... but by your rationale my modded springer is now better than a Systema PTW... Cool

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    I used the spring as an example, a bad one it would seem. Surely Celcius would be able to accommodate something custom onto a Ghost since they only make 4?
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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    I like the idea of a completely custom, one off , built for me gun but what sort of "custom" are you thinking?

    If it is something that requires machining, the cost goes up as the machine needs to be programmed... then if you are only making one item, the cost of NOT mass producing something else compounds the cost.

    I think i would like something like a Bushmaster front end but with sections of RIS machined into it rather that attached. If i have to pay somebody to design it, prgramme the machine, manufacture it, test it to destruction and then do me a "good" one, i would have to pay all of those costs myself. If i decide to knock out 1000 of them, each item now only needs to be 1/1000th of the cost plus profit margins.

    I would also like to see a 4 position selector similar to the MP5 series. I will have a programmable mosfet if i have to, but being able to switch at the flick of the thumb between three round and full auto is something i would like... i have no idea how much that sort of custom work would cost...

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    My point exactly Loki. I imagine they would be happy to do it, but as you have said who knows how much that could cost! I look forward to the reviews when these are available, should make for an interesting read.
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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    Quote Originally Posted by loki7491 View Post
    I am pretty sure a rewound motor and a modded hop do not count as out of the box, like for like.

    I can show you a Ford Fiesta that would rip the arse off of an M5 or an AMG Merc, but as it wasn't bought straight from the dealership i can't sit here and say Ford Fiestas are faster / more powerfull / better accellerating than a BMW M5... A one off modded gun cannot really be classed in the same argument as mass produced out of the factory, which is precicely what this discussion is about.

    I could mod a springer pistol to out range your PTW... i would need the strength of a pissed off silver back to cock it and it would probably explode after a couple of shots... but by your rationale my modded springer is now better than a Systema PTW... Cool
    my gun unlike your springer still fires at 300 fps. Also why aren't celcius doing this out of the factory? people have doing this for years and yet still haven't made any significant changes.

    The way the gearbox is designed I'm pretty sure your not going to be able to get anything other than a standard m4 selector and I find it highly unlikely that they'll re engineer the gearbox just so you can have a 4 position selector as is it nigh on impossible to gain an ambi selector

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    Why arn't they doing what out of the factory? the mods?

    If that is what you are refering to i THINK it is because they supply all over the world and most are "happy" with what they get.

    We are essentially the MaxPower generation of Airsoft... The manufacturers have designed, trialed and developed this things before mass production. They are out a few hours before they are being "improved" by somebody.

    BMW were "happy" with their 5 series... their "M" division made it better (for a premium). Think of Celcius as BMW and STTS as their "M" division.

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    I think that this thread is getting away from the topic of the New CTW's.

    We could do with a CTW vs PTW thread in general, but I've got the feeling that this topic is going to go on for a long, long time.

    Tobi, what are Systsema doing from the factory that is different than Celcius? If I where to buy a new Systema I would buy it directly from a person who mods them (I'm not sure if I'm allowed to name him) with his mods already done.

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    Default

    I don't know what the new mx3 will be like, and nobody does until it's out. However thus far I have heard one or two horror stories about the previous models....buuuut, have heard a lot of horror stories about the PTW also.

    CTW or PTW, you could end up with a lemon...however if you were to put two proven work horses next to each other, there really isn't too much difference in my opinion. The build quality is undeniably better on the PTW, fact due to the more expensive materials used to make them, body gaps etc are not as neat....saying this, they are still of very high quality and these are things hard to see by the naked eye, hardly noticeable, but people who care about things like that should sway towards a PTW, if you are not that anal, then a CTW is for you.

    If performance is what people want then I personally can't see much in it. And in terms of reliability, a LOT of things would have to go wrong with the CTW for you to have to shell out on repairs to equal the price of a PTW.

    Now I have a PTW on the way, but chose over the CTW PURELY because it's one of the prettiest rifles I've ever seen, if I had seen a CTW first which I took a right fancy to, then I'd have gone for that.

    This is an argument that is never going to end as people have different experiences.

    I had a very highly upgraded TM recoil cqbr which had absolutely everything both a PTW and a CTW have, but with recoil.....and EEEEEASILY equalled them in performance, maybe even surpassed them. Obviously the trigger response wasn't quite as good.

    Systema are going to have to buck up their ideas in my eyes, Celsius are going to improve their product further for a fraction of the price, and systema will at some point become the minority in the training weapon department.

    On another note, yes there is the tw5, and now a 416......but I think if either companies bring out some further models, ie AKs, G36 etc that will put a shit load more cash in the bank for them.
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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    Quote Originally Posted by happyal View Post
    I think that this thread is getting away from the topic of the New CTW's.

    We could do with a CTW vs PTW thread in general, but I've got the feeling that this topic is going to go on for a long, long time.

    Tobi, what are Systsema doing from the factory that is different than Celcius? If I where to buy a new Systema I would buy it directly from a person who mods them (I'm not sure if I'm allowed to name him) with his mods already done.
    I'm not going on about systema's being better that's not the point that I'm trying to make rather point out the flaws in the ctw and hope that they listen. I take it stts listen to their customers (I'm not a customer yet I would be if they incorporated my suggestions) I'm just pointing out certain things that they should do out of the box to differentiate their brand from systema since they want to improve on them do they not?

    I've got a 2012 ptw yeah this was more expensive that the ctw but the major cause for concern on a ptw is the motor once this is fixed then you shouldn't have any issues, madwelshman how many ctw's have you had back on the warranty?

    Al It's hard to say to be honest since I've not had the chance to look at the new factory built models I've just got the new 2012 challenge kit, having seen someone with a ctw hop their range is similar the only difference being the shot to shot consistency, mine having been modded was more consistent and I found my hop could be adjusted via small increments the hop on their ctw was more Loose so to speak. I couldn't tell you about how the standard motors compare since I don't own any, I've moistureproofed my own gun and the electronics are the FCC mini mosfet the cpu is standard and I've yet to run into any problems with it.

    My whole point is there are fundamental things they should have drawn from the mx2 the fact that people want LIpo's in the buffer tube, a different size buffer tube which they should be incorporating as opposed to the Ghost edition.

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    Heres a question...if you bought a brand new CTW from the company who shalt not be named...knowing that ALL standard motors in ptw/ctw shit themselves....and i handed the gun to him who shalt not be named to get the motor sorted, because for £80 you might as well as there pretty much bullet proof after hes sorted them....does that void the warranty on the CTW should I have any issues with the rest of the weapon?
    I for one am excited about what celcius are doing, more so after an expanding family a PTW is a bit more out of reach than a ctw.

    And comparing cars to me is daft, there are so many differences between cars, which is why they have very different price tags...with the ctw/ptw comparison, you fill the mag the same with beebs, you pull the trigger...beebs come out...like danny has said...theres issues with both...so why pay an extra £5-600....when reliability is still questionable on both sides? but with CTW you get a warranty...no brainer inmy eyes. you wouldnt buy a car without a warranty for more money when the same is on offer, cheaper with warranty....

    I watched a 2012 PTW shit itself after a 24 hour event....and ive seen a ctw not even get out of its box(very early one)!
    Last edited by westywesty84; 19th June, 2012 at 09:59. Reason: Save posting again
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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    I would imagine if you mess with the internals at all, the warranty is void on the whole gun - which would make sense.

    The same is true with just about every product on Earth. Warrantys are for manufacturers specifications - any change from the original puts it out of spec.

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    Quote Originally Posted by loki7491 View Post
    I would imagine if you mess with the internals at all, the warranty is void on the whole gun - which would make sense.

    The same is true with just about every product on Earth. Warrantys are for manufacturers specifications - any change from the original puts it out of spec.
    That is unless the retailer is happy to give their own warranty which covers it... although that is extremely rare!
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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    Hi, STTS are soon to offer a rewind service,

    They are also planning on offering a swap service, so you can swap a non-rewound motor + cash for a rewound one.

    I can't mention any retailers, but you know who should be able to deal with this for you. There is more info on the CTW forums.

    And yes, playing with any of the internals by anyone that isn't the unnamed retailer will void your warranty, this includes, fitting an etiny fet board, swapping to deans connectors and glueing your hop nub.
    Last edited by CK; 27th January, 2013 at 17:27.

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    Beautiful!!! Any ideas on prices at all?
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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    Not AFAIK yet. I'll let you know.

    Also a Tack rewind is £90.

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    Default Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    CK what sort of range and accuracy are you getting from your ctw? for all of those that want rewinds my local rc shop is getting back to me with a price which I assure you with postage is going to be less than £90 and with a faster turn around, they've even trying to see whether they can increase the torque.

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