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Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

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  • #16
    Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

    The full post from STTS REF the ghost.

    Please find below details of the latest CTW weapon platform to be launched from Celcius. The MX-3 Ghost is THE Training Weapon for 2012 and beyond.

    Available to pre-order from ******************, they are expected to be in UK stock by the end of June / early July and will be available in both CQB and M4A1 formats.

    PLEASE NOTE that due to the extremely high tolerances used in the MX-Ghosts construction there may be a delay in supplying the items as there is already a lot of interest from both airsoft players AND Police / Military units alike:

    The MX-GHOST Training Weapon is the ULTIMATE Training Weapon in the Celcius line up.

    The manufacturing process for the production of the MX-3 GHOST is so strictly controlled with regards to the quality of each part combined with the hand fitting limits production to ONLY 4 guns a month. The weapon is based on high quality CNC processing, assembling, and stringent quality control with each piece being carefully inspected, tested, meticulously detailed, and assembled by hand.

    Each weapon comes complete with a 24 Month Warranty for complete piece of mind.

    Only £1,599.00 complete with a UK-backed 24 month warranty

    Specifications:

    •Calibre: 6mm BB
    •Action: Semi & Full Auto OR Semi & 3 Round Burst (Selectable))
    •6.00mm Sniper Grade Reformation Barrel III (Stainless Steel) with unique Pressure Balancing System
    •MX-3 DP-System™ MOSFET board with Gold-Plated conductors
    •Muzzle Velocity: 330-350 FPS with an M90 Spring (fitted as standard)
    •Gear Box: CTW Planetary Gearbox with reinforced gears
    •Motor: CELCIUS 495 Typhoon III Motor with Cooling Fan and Gold Plated Base
    •Magazine: 2 x 120 Rounds High Speed Magazine
    •CNC manufactured Steel Outer Barrel
    •Steel Outer Case Magazine
    •Reinforced Polycarbonate Piston
    •Military Grade Hand guard and Stock with leather cheek pieces
    •Weapon Length: 620-800mm
    •Barrel Length: 285mm
    •Weight: 3300g

    Recommended Batteries:

    300-400FPS – A LiPo 11.1v 1200mAh 20C battery
    450-500FPS – A LiPo 11.1v 2400mAh 20C battery

    Also in the box:

    •An instruction manual and safe weapon handling guide on CD
    •An exploded parts diagram on CD
    •BB Speed Loader
    •Cleaning Rod
    •S-T-T-S Warranty Card – This must be completed and returned to register
    •S-T-T-S User Guide
    •Celcius ‘Stand Fast….. Fight Hard’ Velcro Unit badge


    I will be at the NAE 27th-30th August and replies to messages may be slow, bear with me!

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

      Sold!

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

        Originally posted by CK View Post
        The list of differences is above in the first post. New mosfet, new ecu, new hop, FCC sun gear, air nozzle (that the TA1 has) and a new motor. AFAIK the only one of these offered as a free replacement for warranty holders is the sun gear.

        The specs of the ghost are the most impressive, STTS say the parts will most likely not be available for individual purchase, and STTS will probably only have parts for warranty replacements.
        I'm guessing (or hoping) that once the Ghost has been out for a year or so, and once they have ironed out the bugs that the motor, and other ghost only parts will become available to everyone. Just a feeling, and I might be wrong but it does make sense, as sooner or later someone will copy it if it works as advertised.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

          This is going to sound like a bit of a plum question, but given the new release of the MX3 etc, how are the CTW's fairing in comparison to PTW?

          The reason I ask, is that in the process of sorting out a new PTW, I wonder if the merit is now worth it by comparison. Forgetting the difference in price, is the CTW still a clone with issues, or is it a warranted purchase instead of a PTW?

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

            AFAIK the mx2 has no more issues than a PTW 2012. And at least STTS are upping the anti with FCC sun gears and improved barrels and air nozzles.

            That being said, they have many of the same faults, motors being the main one, but STTS are looking for solutions to those problems as well, not just leaving them for Tack to charge a large amount of money to sort. (Well earned money on his part of course.)


            I will be at the NAE 27th-30th August and replies to messages may be slow, bear with me!

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

              MX3's aren't out, so can't comment on those, but the latest MX2's are fairing quite well with the PTW's.

              The Celcius is a clone of the PTW, so they have some of the same problems that the PTW has. The UK dealer has slowly been improving their CTW's and have sorted out one or two of the issues. Namely the hop and the barrel are better on the CTW. I think the elecrtics are better too, still could do with moisure proofing, but I don't think it's as big a deal. You also get a warrenty with a new Celcius, you don't with a Systema.

              One area that the CTW hasn't improved on the Systema yet is the motor, it still has the same problems as the PTW. I'm hoping that the new MX3 motors are better. I also think that the general build quality and fit and finish are slightly better with the Systema. Systema owners tend to have a low opinion of the Celcius, if that's important to you.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

                THe MX3 ECU and fet board are supposed to be better than a PTW, I'm unsure about vs etiny though.


                I will be at the NAE 27th-30th August and replies to messages may be slow, bear with me!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

                  That sounds pretty promising and certainly in comparison of price.

                  How are they both performing in terms of accuracy / range / rof etc?

                  In addition, is there a specific release date of the MX3?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

                    If you want to repair the motors then I'm not being funny go to any place that deals with remote control cars and ask them to replace the commutator and the bushes and rewind it, this saves you having to replace the bloody thing also the hop, my new 2012 hop is fine without any hop modification it's hitting man sized targets at 70m if I need to hit someone further away then guess what? I get closer.If they really want to make it better then the systema then why haven't they altered the hop design? surely changing it to a type which can be adjusted through the ejection port would be better than a grub screw.


                    One thing I don't see them doing is shortening the fet board or even trying to shrink it down to the point were it's even smaller than the FCC or Etiny versions and having this as a standard feature, the stock tube, why is there still a bloody commercial spec tube? surely if this is a training weapon then it should have a mil spec tube?. Also I see the gold contacts as a gimmick, I can tap out full auto on my ptw albeit a slow full auto, by increasing the sensitivity you don't gain any real significance since the gains are going to be negligible and for what a doubled cost.

                    As to the electronics how many owners have had there electronics burn out didn't CK say that his electronics were fried? I don't think they're any better since the systema ones have worked just fine. I don't see how they can improve on something which already works quite well

                    Also the first reply was going on about an abundance of sales threads regarding systema's because of this. really? so what your saying is when the nissan gt-r came out every ferrari and porsche owner stuck their car up for sale because something cheaper came along that did the same thing? No I'm not going to stick mine up because last time I checked it worked and it worked well.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

                      Many sound points there TOBI, but i think you may be missing the main one Celcius are trying to get across.

                      In business and customerterms, Systema are the enemy. If they can can offer a cun with more toys, gadgets and gizmos on, for less price, the customer base will sway over time towards the CTWs. I imagine they have a three year model for this, as is common in business.

                      I have read contradicting things about the contacts, some say silver, some say gold. I personally hope it is silver. Silver is the best electrical conductor bar none, and is cheaper than gold... gold is excellent, but purely a gimick in terms of sales patter.

                      I own a MX2 and a MX2-TA. I love them both, but i will be watching these with interest as i have no aversion to adding another to my wall.

                      If you told me 20 years ago Skoda would be making decent cars i would have laughed at you. After a rough time of it and a few redesigns, they are taking a decent portion of the performance car market. The Octavia RS is definitely a contender. Within a short while, i believe this is the way Celcius will go. At the moment they are largely an unknown and in the same way the Octavia was when iwas first released, seen by many as a risky option as previous attemps have been horrific failures, but these new guns have been based on your tried and tested Systema PTW with some improvements on that.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

                        Originally posted by loki7491 View Post
                        Many sound points there TOBI, but i think you may be missing the main one Celcius are trying to get across.

                        In business and customerterms, Systema are the enemy. If they can can offer a cun with more toys, gadgets and gizmos on, for less price, the customer base will sway over time towards the CTWs. I imagine they have a three year model for this, as is common in business.

                        I have read contradicting things about the contacts, some say silver, some say gold. I personally hope it is silver. Silver is the best electrical conductor bar none, and is cheaper than gold... gold is excellent, but purely a gimick in terms of sales patter.

                        I own a MX2 and a MX2-TA. I love them both, but i will be watching these with interest as i have no aversion to adding another to my wall.

                        If you told me 20 years ago Skoda would be making decent cars i would have laughed at you. After a rough time of it and a few redesigns, they are taking a decent portion of the performance car market. The Octavia RS is definitely a contender. Within a short while, i believe this is the way Celcius will go. At the moment they are largely an unknown and in the same way the Octavia was when iwas first released, seen by many as a risky option as previous attemps have been horrific failures, but these new guns have been based on your tried and tested Systema PTW with some improvements on that.
                        You've missed my point though going on about skoda's if you owned say an M5 which is a comparable car would you go and sell it to buy a skoda which no doubt does the same thing at a fraction of the cost? No you wouldn't unless you had taken one to many blow to the head.

                        Also the ghost is pointless increasing the trigger response by replacing the contacts with gold is pointless since you don't improve the skill of the end user.

                        What Improvements though? the thicker roller packing that they put in the hops wasn't found by them it was systema owners, the rewinding and replacement of motor components was done by Tack, the shortening of the fet board was done successfully by TacK, you still get guns failing under the warranty the only difference so far is that all of the components on the gun fail but you get them replaced for free I don't see this as better but more as a PITA, my ptw hasn't skipped a beat I've not had any issues with anything other than the motor which got repaired for £80, my electronics have never faltered nor has my gearbox, so that renders any warranty as moot, in my eyes celcius have done sweet FA. so in conclusion if celcius want to beat systema they need to.

                        1. change the hop design to something far easier to adjust a variation of the vsr hop would be a good start.
                        2. rewind and replace the commutators on their motors as standard.
                        3. replace the stupid commercial spec buffer tube with a cut out for the battery wiring.
                        4. shorten the fet board even more than the etiny and FCC versions.
                        5. make their cylinders smaller so you don't have to buy a systema cylinder if you want to use a prime upper.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

                          Absolutely i would not sell an M5 to buy a VRS, but if i was buying new and could get comparible performance for £15k less, i would be a fool not to.

                          I am not expecting Systema owners to sell up and switch to CTWs. I am expecting "virgins" to buy the CTW instead of the Systema (for the most part that is - you will of course still get the Systema PTW or nothing crowd... at least until next year when they shut up shop and stop production! - only duty rumour, no hard facts... i don't know their bank manager or anything)

                          Warranty being rendered pointless just because your gun has not suffered expensive failings seems a bit of a bold statement. I would suggest you have been lucky. All elcto-mechanical devices have a failure rate, it is a fact of life. Yours has lasted well, the next one off the line may have lasted 10 mags or 10 months, the free warranty offered with CTWs is peace of mind for the owners not as blessed as you with a very reliable gun out of the box.

                          With regard to Tack and Systema owners discovering certain mods, that was never in dispute... if anything, it is kinda the point. These guns are coming pre-modded... with the warranty to boot! Your £80 motor repair would have cost you at worst £50 assuming you paid £25 each way for postage or at best a couple of quid if you lived near enough to drop the gun off and collect it in person.

                          PTWs are great bits of kit. That fact is not in dispute.

                          A PTW with factory fitted mods and a warranty, for less money is an even better deal though and one i am sure you would jump on (assuming you were going to buy another gun anyway)

                          The trade off for the price difference is the name, a few minor differences and the fact that Systema and their loyal customers have done most of the research and development on behalf of Celcius and thus kept the production costs down. (for which i thank you all )

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

                            Originally posted by TOBI View Post
                            You've missed my point though going on about skoda's if you owned say an M5 which is a comparable car would you go and sell it to buy a skoda which no doubt does the same thing at a fraction of the cost? No you wouldn't unless you had taken one to many blow to the head.
                            I know what you are trying to say but cars are completely different to air soft guns, you're not going to get a good analogy. The closest thing we are going to get is the what happened to the price of the TM guns after China started making good clones. Yes the TM guns were still better, but not by much, and certainly not worth the massive premium they were asking.

                            Also the post about abundance of sales threads regarding PTW’s, I was just passing comment, as before I bought my CTW I was looking to buy a PTW, and I’ve noticed that there are a hell of a lot more PTW’s coming for sale recently, and that the price has dropped considerably. I’m not offering any comment on it, I’m just saying that’s it’s happening (on this site at least).

                            Originally posted by TOBI View Post
                            1. change the hop design to something far easier to adjust a variation of the vsr hop would be a good start.
                            2. rewind and replace the commutators on their motors as standard.
                            3. replace the stupid commercial spec buffer tube with a cut out for the battery wiring.
                            4. shorten the fet board even more than the etiny and FCC versions.
                            5. make their cylinders smaller so you don't have to buy a systema cylinder if you want to use a prime upper.
                            Agreed with all of these points, it’s hard to say with any certainty if these are not included with the new MX3’s because they aren’t out yet and we are going off only the information that has been released. I will pass on these points to the UK distributer, because what ever you think of Celcuis the UK distributer is great and is listening to what we are saying.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

                              I never said I sent my motor to Tack just that he developed a solution to the problem which is now easily accessible to many infact he even tells you how to do it on his forum any good RC car shop can do it for you and that's including postage, the electronics are fine I know guys with 07 models that have yet to have any trouble with their electronics that's 5 years without a hiccup I think the saying if it ain't broke don't fix it comes to mind.

                              Al I don't have a problem with celcius but having seen a friend with one of these who's sent his back twice now once for the new gear and the other time because his mosfet board went haywire I don't have confidence in them the only thing their motors have over the systema motors is I can get two for the price of one systema.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost

                                Sadly, because none of us are privvy to the failure rate figures for either product, this debate will pass back and forth with only snap shots of information and never the whole picture.

                                I would like to see (in my fantasy dream world) a graph or table comparing the units sold versus the failure rate for each product.

                                I suspect the total numbers would be similar for three reasons:

                                1. Systema have sold more units as they have been about longer - so there is more chance of failure
                                2. Celcius will have suffered teething problems in the early stages - so there is chance of failure

                                The fundamentals are this though:

                                * In a skirmish situation, performance differences are negligible. RoF, range, accuracy etc are all in the same area. They will vary from gun to gun, but all in the same bracket.
                                * Like for like models have CTWs coming in at circa 40 - 50% cheaper than PTWs
                                * You get a warranty for failed parts with Celcius

                                Under lab conditions one gun may prove more accurate out of the box, or have an extra few feet of range, but on the skirmish site, those small differences for either gun are hardly noticeable - once the guns hit the field in a head to head, it is down to the guy with the trigger finger.

                                As we do not play in a lab (and nor can i sample sufficient guns from each brand to give you an out right winner) I can have the same performance as you for considerably less cost. At the end of the day, money is King and airsofters are sick to the back teeth of being ripped off. The Chinese clone market took off for a reason - similar performance for less money.

                                Comment

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