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idea: The British Rebel Fighter - What would they look like?

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  • idea: The British Rebel Fighter - What would they look like?

    Bit a an idea I've not really seen ever floating around. Loads of talk about historic Rebel loadouts, Vietcong, Islamic Jihad fighter getups, Northern Ireland IRA, even lifejacket-wearing AK toting Africans but what if there was a British take on of these kinds of loadouts? What if Britain currently looked like Syria? We know what the government troops would look like as they'd be all MTPd up, but what about the other side?

    Note: The less tactical the gear, the better, it's very easy to slip towards PMC-look when you have dudes running around in civilian clothes and expensive Molle vests and multi-thousand dollar flash tacticool rifles


    Scenario:
    Current day British Civil War between government troops and rebel fighters from more economically deprived areas of Britain. Whatever the politics, they's not happy with each other and they's got to shooting each other, like. Imagine if civilians from Scotland, the Northern English areas and Wales got a bit sick of London rule. What if Liverpool got a bit sick of being the butt of the UK's jokes and wanted to invade Westminster?
    <<< Children of Men, Incredible movie Btw.

    Fighters
    Men from a typically working class background, aged 18-50, but generally everybody has been a bit buggered over. Strong elements of national pride evident, the idea of taking back your country from the government.

    Weapons
    Scrounged L85s from raided military bases sound like a plan, but what if there was foreign supply intervention? The most likely to me sounds like the US and China could supply weapons to a theoretical favoured rebel side, so AKs, type 56s, M16a2s, FALs, WW2 surplus, that kind of thing I could imagine. I don't think tactical M4s would look right for this sort of thing, as that would involve a lot of expenditure.

    Clothing
    Mostly civvies, dependent on age. The Youth could be seen in tracksuits, hoodies and baseball caps, their pants tucked into their socks and a bandana covering their face - your average trip to a JJB Sports basically, while more middle age gents I imagine would look a more like football fans I'd imagine, a unifying design touch could be the wearing of actual football shirts with trousers of choice, jeans, cargoes, etc whatever. Trainers and doc martens. Another thing that could work is the wearing of British/English/Scottish/Welsh flags, either on an armband, around the head or neck like a shemagh, basically the idea of football and love for the country drawing together such rebel fighters.



    Killing floor had two characters that interested me a bit on this front.

    Balaclavas could feature as well as there would probably be a need to hide ones identity, same with hoodies and bandana face-masks.

    Gear
    Scavenged, not Tactical at all. Think extremely utilitarian.

    This is unfortunately where I might need help from you guys, I'm thinking raided british PLCE webbing and other ancient hand-me-downs.



    My research into current rebellions in Africa and the middle east basically show gear that was militarily common about 40-50 years ago, so Chicom canvas chest rigs, the aforementioned PLCE which was nicked from supply bases/milsurp stores could be the most modern gear such rebels could attain.



    So what do you guys think, does this have some legs as an idea?

  • #2
    Re: idea: The British Rebel Fighter - What would they look like?

    Wouldn't surplus stores get robbed too? That'd make for a decent amount of gear and I'd imagine that things like shotguns would also be got early on due to practical uses and legal procurement BEFORE the civil war. I doubt we'd have too many weapon imports either, so once the bases had been ransacked, I'd imagine that ports would be taken over and from then we'd get weapons imported, but who would supply would be a rather big issue as the UK is part of the UN and EU, soldiers would be more likely sent than weapons for militia.

    I don't think a civil war would last all that long at all as we're an island nation with a strong army, if a civil war broke out then imports could be limited so all the rebels would run out of supplies and if violence broke out on a decent scale, the army could suppress it.
    Originally posted by Lt. Macka
    big black shapes draw the eye.

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    • #3
      Re: idea: The British Rebel Fighter - What would they look like?

      I was hoping to not focus on the details of the backstory and instead chat more about the gear, but good point about the shotguns.

      Imagine it's a couple of years into this and it's very much a stalemate/insurgency.

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      • #4
        Re: idea: The British Rebel Fighter - What would they look like?

        I think that the story would have to matter.

        If you're 'a couple of years into it' then you'd have to imagine that at least a sizeable proportion of the armed forces joined the rebels (otherwise, as Proto points out, it wouldn't have lasted that long). That being the case, there would also be a fair bit of MTP, guns and kit floating around in the rebels too.

        I imagine you'd end up with a lot of people wearing trainers, jeans, t-shirts and issue jackets of some kind of camo over the top with whatever vests they could find for carrying mags plus any scavenged rifles mixed in with some shotguns and simpler weapons.

        In other words, it would look like Syria but with British people rather than Syrians.
        102nd Chairborne Rangers - "Intelluctus VCRAus recte"

        Keyboard Commando - "He who argues until the other person gives up and goes away wins"

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        • #5
          Re: idea: The British Rebel Fighter - What would they look like?

          You are saying a couple of years in, but personally I'd think about the early phase and try to then tell a story from there. Maybe start with last year's riots, and a stereo-typical hoodie and face wrap. Then put your character through what the likely stages of a rebellion as it goes on. Loose the low slung jeans as those guys will certainly be the first casualties, perhaps just some primark camo trousers. Add some appropriate gloves as a lesson learned in the proper use of petrol bombs. A useable pack and crowbar for a spot of looting. Then add a thick coat for the inevitable first winter. likelihood is that the rebels are having to live on the move so a bit of survival gear should be evident. Then a mish-mash of tactical gear, likely DPM as that is still everywhere in surplus stores and market stalls. Add to this some rebellious slogans maybe painted on, and you are a winner.
          Gun wise, dunno. Sure that if there was suddenly a demand for guns in the UK some IRA caches would no doubt magically appear.

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          • #6
            Re: idea: The British Rebel Fighter - What would they look like?

            I think people would generally avoid anything that looked like a 'uniform', regardless of style. As in Syria at the moment, for most people, if they dropped the AK and dumped the mags out of their bag/pockets, they can pass as a non-combatant on either side and leg it back to safety. It's only the more organised Militias that have any real field kit, and even that's minimal. You have anything that obviously points you out as a fighter on you, you're liable to be shot by either side on sight.

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            • #7
              Re: idea: The British Rebel Fighter - What would they look like?

              The storyline/background doesn't work for so many reasons it's untrue, as the OP said, I think you have to treat it abit like FTL travel in science fiction and just run with it. I actually think the issue for rough realism isn't the rbels not being powerful enough to fight our military, but the other way around, assuming the rebellion got going.

              While our military is formidable, it is also very small, and a great deal of it's power rests in high maintaince machines operating from fixed bases. Assume you have between 80,000-100,000 troops, you then have to defend several key RN and RAF installations which need to be retained. Add powerstations, 'green zones' in major cities, transport infrastructure, you don't have many combat units left. While our troops are very well versed in counter insurgency, the force is too small to retain any control over a country of 66 million. A Type 45 destroyer or Astute class sub are aweome bits of kit, but we don't have enough to police the whole shoreline, and a complete blockade means starvation and total economic collapse, so weapons would slip in, and I guess there would be some money for them from some kind of shady funding with an interest in destabilisation/regime change. A Eurofighter or Tornado is a very sophisticated bit of kit, but of limited use in primarily urban fighting and guerilla warfare, likewise the few Challengers we have - the technological advantages of the military in a small localised conflict abroad would be negated by the scale and nature of this sort of fighting.

              Assume then the armed forces are going to have to be hitting near WWII levels of conscription/recruitment, and remember that for every rebel there will likely be people who like the status quo, fear the potential unknown or want to protect their families, and so will join the government side. You then have a core of the regular standing army forming an elite, and new recruits to swell the armed forces and do alot of that static defence that soaks up manpower and requires comparatively little training. These new recruits will likely have basic body armour, very basic L85s (I am assuming production has restarted), FALs, likely M4s and M16s too. MTP and DPM would be the norm, remembering DPM was designed for a temperate european climate primarily. Alot of troops would defect due to strong ties to specific areas and communities, safety of their families etc so military kit would likely be in the mix. Since the level of troops needs to be broght up, equipment and training will be nowhere near what it was, and that evens out the odds - the current regulars become more akin to special forces in their use and relative size.

              Rebels would likely have the ubiquitious AK, 9mm pistols, 9mm MP5s & 5.56 G36s/L85, due to police and army stores and easy to get ammo. Shotguns, maybe .22 rifles. I doubt football shirts would be used, they are divisive, and football isn't the driving force it once was in uniting people. I think the split of factions would be along ethnic/cultural lines, you would have people with a religious agenda tryng to further it, you would have the democratic idealists similar to European revolutionaries and potentially nationalist and far right groups, dependant on the form of government being fought. Clothes would be the usual civilian attire plus the odd combat jacket and some old fashioned load carrying gear, wouldn't want to look too military, and would likely adopt arm bands, or a certain colour as an identifier.

              Interesting ideas, but every way you looks at it the silliness of the idea makes it fall apart at the seams, so really you have to go with whatever seems most fun to you.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: idea: The British Rebel Fighter - What would they look like?

                Originally posted by Figjam View Post
                You are saying a couple of years in, but personally I'd think about the early phase and try to then tell a story from there. Maybe start with last year's riots, and a stereo-typical hoodie and face wrap. Then put your character through what the likely stages of a rebellion as it goes on. Loose the low slung jeans as those guys will certainly be the first casualties, perhaps just some primark camo trousers. Add some appropriate gloves as a lesson learned in the proper use of petrol bombs. A useable pack and crowbar for a spot of looting. Then add a thick coat for the inevitable first winter. likelihood is that the rebels are having to live on the move so a bit of survival gear should be evident. Then a mish-mash of tactical gear, likely DPM as that is still everywhere in surplus stores and market stalls. Add to this some rebellious slogans maybe painted on, and you are a winner.
                Gun wise, dunno. Sure that if there was suddenly a demand for guns in the UK some IRA caches would no doubt magically appear.
                Just want to say, this is all great stuff. You've got a much greater emphasis on survival going here as well as practicality. I sort of imagined pitched battles initially, whereas that wouldn't necessarily be the bulk of an insurgency's activities.

                Now i need to hunt down a foam crowbar.

                Originally posted by Jay8 View Post
                Interesting ideas, but every way you looks at it the silliness of the idea makes it fall apart at the seams, so really you have to go with whatever seems most fun to you.
                It's for loadout fun, for airsoft, not necessarily a solid narrative. I'm mainly after gear suggestions and clothing really. Of which there's been a bunch of really good suggestions so far.

                And I think it'd be nice to play OPFOR as a British person, anarchist, terrorist, etc what have you, rather than the current enemy du jour like Middle Eastern people or Russians.

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                • #9
                  Re: idea: The British Rebel Fighter - What would they look like?

                  I would imagine barbour jackets, flat caps/french style berets would be very practical.

                  Ultimately the fighters will wear whats practical and staying outside in the UK, possibly the countryside where there would be less government forces would dictate warm wool clothing, barbour style wax jackets and head gear suitable for uk woods. The country type clothes were and are worn for their practicality, not their style. Town based insurgents would thus look quite different, where blending in with the locals and civilians would be key, similar to how the IRA operated and how the fishes are in children of men.

                  Weapons would be based on what could be scrounged, the odd 303 deer rifle, .22 rifles. the illegal firearms currently available to crims, fn fal, g36(stolen police), sa 80's, browning hi power pistols, glocks, shotguns and any ak's from the IRA (whose contacts with arms dealers would be invaluable).
                  Last edited by emergencychimp; 8 October, 2012, 12:05. Reason: weapons!
                  sigpic

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                  • #10
                    Re: idea: The British Rebel Fighter - What would they look like?

                    Insurgent loadout in the UK.
                    Thought about the IRA in the 80s and 90s?
                    All easily available and if they had ransacked military bases to start with you would find an assortment of weaponry.
                    Don't just keep L85s in the armouries.
                    Also look at stuff like LE.303s, once deac but then worked on to reactivate, with desperation anything is possible.

                    I really like the idea though.
                    section 24 of the 1968 Act
                    Supplying imitation firearms to minors
                    1)It is an offence for a person under the age of eighteen to purchase an imitation firearm
                    2)It is an offence to sell an imitation firearm to a person under the age of eighteen.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: idea: The British Rebel Fighter - What would they look like?

                      Originally posted by seansamurai1 View Post
                      Thought about the IRA in the 80s and 90s?
                      I noticed a thing in my research on the IRA that the DPM kit and LB gear stolen from Brit bases often filtered through to the most visible people to the world media, the people who appeared in the full kit in balaclavas and DPM, apparently to further push the idea of them as a legitimate standing army. I'd imagine the actual operatives and fighters being dressed to necessity most of the time though.

                      In fact the main thing really stopping me going full IRA look is that I don't feel fully comfortable assuming the look and role of a fighter from a conflict I don't fully understand, as with Afghanistan or Iraq or the Russian Afghan campaign, hence my desire for a more fictional OPFOR look really.

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                      • #12
                        Re: idea: The British Rebel Fighter - What would they look like?

                        Originally posted by Hawaiian Special Forces View Post

                        In fact the main thing really stopping me going full IRA look is that I don't feel fully comfortable assuming the look and role of a fighter from a conflict I don't fully understand, as with Afghanistan or Iraq or the Russian Afghan campaign, hence my desire for a more fictional OPFOR look really.
                        Without trying to come across as a knob, don't you think maybe it would be an idea to educate yourself on it before you make a decision? In my opinion I think the IRA had genuine reasons, they were fighting for the independence of their country. I don't agree with a lot of their tactics and methods but I can understand their motivations and origins.

                        BTW, I love the thread idea.
                        sigpic

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                        • #13
                          Re: idea: The British Rebel Fighter - What would they look like?

                          Originally posted by emergencychimp View Post
                          Without trying to come across as a knob, don't you think maybe it would be an idea to educate yourself on it before you make a decision? In my opinion I think the IRA had genuine reasons, they were fighting for the independence of their country. I don't agree with a lot of their tactics and methods but I can understand their motivations and origins.
                          Actually that's my point, I don't know enough about the conflict so I would prefer to fence-sit and not want to roleplay as either side in the troubles until I knew more, in case I perhaps rashly disrespect or glorify a conflict or I don't fully understand where real people fought and died.

                          I try to educate myself in these matters but I'm just not up on Irish history yet. :/

                          Anyway, a lot of good stuff coming up, particularly the practicality end.

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                          • #14
                            Re: idea: The British Rebel Fighter - What would they look like?

                            Originally posted by Hawaiian Special Forces View Post
                            I noticed a thing in my research on the IRA that the DPM kit and LB gear stolen from Brit bases often filtered through to the most visible people to the world media, the people who appeared in the full kit in balaclavas and DPM, apparently to further push the idea of them as a legitimate standing army. I'd imagine the actual operatives and fighters being dressed to necessity most of the time though.

                            In fact the main thing really stopping me going full IRA look is that I don't feel fully comfortable assuming the look and role of a fighter from a conflict I don't fully understand, as with Afghanistan or Iraq or the Russian Afghan campaign, hence my desire for a more fictional OPFOR look really.
                            I see where you are coming from but the back story you have provided shows that it's Brits trying to be recognised and respected, most of the gear they had was also surplus gear which was openly available.
                            Tbh it doesn't leave much if surplus is off the cards, pretty much leaves jeans and t-shirt (almost PMCish) or a tracksuit (very Croatian gangster wannabe, gold AK anyone?).
                            section 24 of the 1968 Act
                            Supplying imitation firearms to minors
                            1)It is an offence for a person under the age of eighteen to purchase an imitation firearm
                            2)It is an offence to sell an imitation firearm to a person under the age of eighteen.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: idea: The British Rebel Fighter - What would they look like?

                              Originally posted by Hawaiian Special Forces View Post
                              Actually that's my point, I don't know enough about the conflict so I would prefer to fence-sit and not want to roleplay as either side in the troubles until I knew more, in case I perhaps rashly disrespect or glorify a conflict or I don't fully understand where real people fought and died.

                              I try to educate myself in these matters but I'm just not up on Irish history yet. :/

                              Anyway, a lot of good stuff coming up, particularly the practicality end.
                              Cool, Im a bit of a history and politics geek so I know a few of the basics and I do appreciate not everyone really cares about the details as much a me. I can be a bit evangelical about understanding certain conflicts/ world issues. I should tone that down!

                              I do think children of men fighters would be a great place to look for inspiration though. They have a mix of weapons, practical kit/clothes for their various locations.
                              sigpic

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