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Desert.Express
Brigadier
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Nov 2011
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#1
How to stop scamming? Try this
23 August, 2014, 14:51
So, this might not take a fancy of anyone, but I'll try.
I believe that, the only way to prevent people from scamming here, is to force any subscriber to provide his/her valid paypal account (to be Paypal verified first, and by mods/admins then), and showing it on his/her profile so anyone can see it.
Privacy? F**k privacy, it's just an e-mail and if anyone wants to stay on the safe side then you should only send/receive money from that account.
And, rather than using a pointless post count limit, why not setting a minimum iTrader's score required (like 25), and a minimum £ value in terms of stuff sold (like £1000, because someone could get to 25 positive feedbacks by selling only very cheap stuff), before allowing a member to use other payment methods (like bank transfer).
It might sound excessive, but even if a genuine guy is yet to achieve the £1000 mark and 25 positive feedbacks, worst it can happen is he'll need to stick with paypal to buy/sell stuff..so there would be no limitations at all, but using the damn paypal for all the transactions.
A seller who hasn't reached at least 25 positive feedbacks and £1000 worth stuff sold, asking the buyer to send a paypal gifted payment or via other forms, if reported has to be banned for a week and get a warning.
At 3 warnings, 1 month banned, 5 warnings and the account will be deleted.
And I'm not talking about the pile of useless infractions that are usually given (they're not all useless but the most part is, to me), but actual warnings that have a sense and can bring you to be banned for long or permanently.
Last but not least, any seller
must
write his forum name and date on a paper with a pen, pencil or whatever, and the writing has to be plain and clear; if you allow people to show a paper with a name and a date stamped on it, it's not good.
Anyhow, at the end of the day, you don't want to subscribe here because you have no paypal account or too lazy to create one? Well, it's not our problem, it's just yours; if these are the rules, you stay at them or you do not enter.
You want to subscribe just to act like a curious bystander, without a Paypal account? Well you can't enter the same, because you might start selling stuff one day and only god knows if you're genuine or not.
Too complicated? Well, if you have any concern about all of this just tell me, but if you want to get rid of all I wrote here, because you think you can fight scamming by only reading posts and counting them, good luck then.
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wolfen
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Oct 2010
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#2
23 August, 2014, 15:39
Re: How to stop scamming? Try this
I agree with most of that mate.
One question is there anything they could do with your paypal email, not up on internet fraud LOL
If people are genuine then they would have no problems with it.
To be honest I prefer people to pay by paypal properly and not as a gift, I am happy to swallow the charges, that way everyone knows they are on the level.
I try and only deal with people who have positive feedback, not necessarily 25 but at least a few good deals.
Once drove halfway across the country to confront a seller over a £50 pistol, wasn't the money it was the principle.
Nige
The United Kingdom. Its where Great Britain used to be.
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Vex
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Nov 2012
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#3
23 August, 2014, 20:30
Re: How to stop scamming? Try this
Zero in wont start verifying paypal emails for us, they have enough to do already and probably dont want to get involved with private sales, I can see it now, "but but its zero in's fault because they said the email was ok"
Just sounds like an over complicated system instead of what you should already be doing and googling the email address before sending money to it.
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Madbull Landmine / Black Hellstorm Gloves / DPM South African Assault Vest
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Pepperisit
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Dec 2010
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#4
23 August, 2014, 21:05
Re: How to stop scamming? Try this
What stops someone setting up a paypal address with no address and then coming here and setting up an account. Paypal do not want our custom to buy and sell RIF's privately so they will not be helping us track down peoples bank details if/when transactions go south.
Or have I missed something?
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Montague
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#5
24 August, 2014, 23:24
Re: How to stop scamming? Try this
I've just noticed an influx of new members that have photoshopped their name / date into the image of what they're selling, has anyone else noticed this?
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Spatch69
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#6
24 August, 2014, 23:50
Re: How to stop scamming? Try this
Bottom line is you'll never stop it, there will always be someone who circumvents the rules and those who see something that's too good to be true and still pays for it, if you're stupid enough to not do any research on a member then who's fault is it?
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
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ukpred
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#7
25 August, 2014, 00:10
Re: How to stop scamming? Try this
i would prefer id verification on account before post are allowed in classifieds, driving license scanned or passport and held by mods. Its easy set up to add to forum and only seen by mods
Trader Feedback
http://www.zeroin.co.uk/showthread.php?t=39650
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Desert.Express
Brigadier
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Nov 2011
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#8
25 August, 2014, 11:17
Re: How to stop scamming? Try this
Originally posted by
Vex
View Post
Zero in wont start verifying paypal emails for us, they have enough to do already and probably dont want to get involved with private sales, I can see it now, "but but its zero in's fault because they said the email was ok"
If the account is verified by Paypal and Zeroin too, this means that you're dealing with someone who should be 90% genuine.
And if he's not, you just send him money non-gifted; you'll always be on the safe spot. (till you buy
material
goods; because if you buy, for example, a code to get "Microsoft Points", it's not material and Paypal protection doesn't cover it)
Originally posted by
Pepperisit
View Post
What stops someone setting up a paypal address with no address and then coming here and setting up an account. Paypal do not want our custom to buy and sell RIF's privately so they will not be helping us track down peoples bank details if/when transactions go south.
Or have I missed something?
If an account is 100% verified by Paypal, this means they have your ID so a full name, birthdate and address too.
Not saying that Paypal has to forward this info to Zeroin, but at least Zeroin knows that a verified account correspond to someone with a name and an address.
Also, Paypal doesn't want us to buy/sell Rif's but when I told them I do this they were fine about it; it's not that clear if they want or not.
Not to mention that a Paypal account is closed when there are too many claims/disputes which involve the owner, and this is helpful if someone who has already tried to scam elsewhere comes here; a few more claims and he gets banned from Paypal (and here).
Originally posted by
Montague
View Post
I've just noticed an influx of new members that have photoshopped their name / date into the image of what they're selling, has anyone else noticed this?
True, but mods do not seem to care; anytime I have to put for sale any single, stupid item I take paper and a pen, write my name and take the pics (even if I use the same "background" very often, it's noticeable in many pics, so I could use some took without the forum name and date, but I bother myself still as it's a rule at all effects and I have to respect it).
If you introduce a good rule but don't make people 100% respect it, it can't be considered all the way effective.
Originally posted by
Spatch69
View Post
Bottom line is you'll never stop it, there will always be someone who circumvents the rules and those who see something that's too good to be true and still pays for it, if you're stupid enough to not do any research on a member then who's fault is it?
So that's why we need more uncompromising rules for sellers, on hand, and "teaching" people how to buy safely, on the other.
I think the research would not bring any result, as anyone can subscribe on 100 different forums with 100 names.
But, for example, the Paypal account is unique for any person, you put your real name and need to give the proof of it.
Originally posted by
ukpred
View Post
i would prefer id verification on account before post are allowed in classifieds, driving license scanned or passport and held by mods. Its easy set up to add to forum and only seen by mods
This would be more complicated, the best we could demand to Zeroin is to ask new member's real name when they subscribe, then the Paypal account to see if they match.
But I don't even know if they can, the Paypal account itself should be more than enough.
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the_monkey
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#9
31 August, 2014, 11:46
Re: How to stop scamming? Try this
1- If its too good to be true it is
2- If the seller has just joined, has no feedback and the first thing they are selling is a £400 gun...chances are its a scam
3- If it reffers to the product as a BB gun....chances are its a scam
-'Sly villain! Thou does not acknowledge thine hits!'
-'I doth so, yonder vagabond, but thouest has the control of a nunnery whore, and thine accuracy doth compare to thine codpiece, short of the mark!'
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Montague
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#10
31 August, 2014, 14:24
Re: How to stop scamming? Try this
4- If they have photoshopped their username and date into the photo from another thread, chances are it's a scam.
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Muzlie
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#11
31 August, 2014, 16:25
How to stop scamming? Try this
We don't need any counts or limits, if you see anything suspicious or that doesn't abide by forum rules report to a moderator, and most importantly don't buy it! Simple!
(And sorry mods but perhaps you need to be a bit more Johnny on the spot? Or recruit some more?)
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Desert.Express
Brigadier
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#12
31 August, 2014, 17:04
Re: How to stop scamming? Try this
Originally posted by
the_monkey
View Post
1- If its too good to be true it is
2- If the seller has just joined, has no feedback and the first thing they are selling is a £400 gun...chances are its a scam
I've started selling expensive stuff here since I was an unknown overseas seller, and look at my feedbacks now.
The thing someone with no feedbacks starts selling expensive stuff as soon as he joins the community, doesn't mean he has to be a con man anytime.
As Montague says, the first step to avoid scams is to make people respect the "forum name" rule when they take pics of what they're selling, not allowing to use photoshop'd names.
Then, as I'm suggesting, to make sure any subscriber has a full verified Paypal account and can't receive money other than via Paypal, before they reach 25 positive feedbacks and a certain amount of x£ worth stuff sold. (my idea is £1000 but it can be £500 too, because in any case a trader has to satisfy both requirements before being able to use other payment methods, and even if you get to £500-1000 quickly it's a long way to go through for 25 positive feedbacks from 25 different members)
- - - Updated - - -
Originally posted by
Muzlie
View Post
We don't need any counts or limits, if you see anything suspicious or that doesn't abide by forum rules report to a moderator, and most importantly don't buy it! Simple!
(And sorry mods but perhaps you need to be a bit more Johnny on the spot? Or recruit some more?)
Yes we do, because as I said before how can you state something is suspicious (or not) with certainty?
In the early stages of my trader activity here, I've sold PTWs and other expensive stuff with no feedbacks or a few ones..there was no scam, obviously, as you can see by having a look at my feedbacks.
So, since you never can't tell if someone is genuine or not (apart from exceptional cases), the kind of rules I'm proposing could make this place safer for traders before anyone starts selling anything here; if there's someone who doesn't satisfy those requirements, can't even enter, according to my point of view.
But, if you have nothing to hide, you can just be happy to give any possible proof you're genuine (as you do with Paypal) to have certain benefits in return (like having the chance to sell/buy stuff in one of the biggest european airsoft communities, which is this place).
And you're double happy because you know you're surrounded by a majority of genuine people, because it would be very difficult for scammers to deal with this place if they have to follow so many restrictive rules.
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Muzlie
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#13
31 August, 2014, 20:31
How to stop scamming? Try this
Sorry side not, post in classifieds with name done on MS paint, see how long/ if it gets removed
Edit, perhaps also we should do a poll to see if some sort of count or verification Is wanted by the community?
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HuntR
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#14
31 August, 2014, 21:12
Re: How to stop scamming? Try this
Post count will never happen, as it could potentially penalise someone who is 100% genuine. And verification will never happen either due to the Data Protection Act being in place.
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Desert.Express
Brigadier
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#15
1 September, 2014, 00:39
Re: How to stop scamming? Try this
Originally posted by
Muzlie
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Sorry side not, post in classifieds with name done on MS paint, see how long/ if it gets removed
Edit, perhaps also we should do a poll to see if some sort of count or verification Is wanted by the community?
There are threads even
without
the forum name, that are not removed.
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