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So....The old question
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DatJames
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Feb 2014
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#1
So....The old question
2 March, 2016, 04:59
...So, decided to make a German loadout and the old question "Is it okay to use the SS" symbols keeps running across my mind. I only plan to use the SS collar-tabs (The infamous SS Lightning on one, the other is plain black) ...Rest of load-out consists of a AGM MG42, WE Luger, Y-Harness with Canteen, Bread bag, Holster (For the luger of course...A MG42 holder would be rather impressive :P) Entrenching shovel (With pouch to fit to belt running through harness) SS Dot trousers, M43 Tunic, M42 Smock and the MG42 Tool pouch (For BB's and bits)
So...What is the general consensus on using SS logo'd stuff?... Should I just avoid and get general infantry collar-tabs or just risk upsetting a few with the SS ones?
Thanks in advance for any feedback/personal experiences on subject
A prisoner of war is a man who tries to kill you and fails, and then asks you not to kill him
chappie4933
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#2
2 March, 2016, 06:57
Re: So....The old question
As your portraying a combat soldier not a prison guard or something like at, SS or not I cant see a problem with it.
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ElZer0
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#3
2 March, 2016, 07:08
Re: So....The old question
Of your asking, prob best to avoid...
FOR SALE
7" Magpul ERGO free float ris, 7" larue ff ris,
, multicam pistol pouch, ACM pistol fast bags.
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PureSilver
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#4
2 March, 2016, 10:58
Re: So....The old question
Originally posted by
DatJames
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So...What is the general consensus on using SS logo'd stuff?... Should I just avoid and get general infantry collar-tabs or just risk upsetting a few with the SS ones?
You acknowledge that you're likely to upset people by wearing SS insignia. You haven't provided any particular reason why you'd want to wear SS insignia to offset that; it's not like there's a Combat 18/Blood and Honour splinter group that goes around hunting down airsofters who re-enact German loadouts but don't wear full Nazi regalia.
So... Why are you even asking? Why would you
want
to wear SS insignia to a regular skirmish in the first place, apart from attention-seeking? (The last thread where that happened was truly a sight to behold, BTW.)
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Boo-Sabum Ben
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#5
2 March, 2016, 11:50
Re: So....The old question
As above. It doesn't add anything to your load out other than the potential to cause upset
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Eatmycamo
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#6
2 March, 2016, 12:50
Re: So....The old question
Now I'm no German WWII professional, but out of curiosity, from some of the replies, did the SS not have all the better kit? It's my understanding that, although well equipped, Heer troops were generally worse off compared to the SS.
I think it may even void the warranty (don't quote me on that).
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DatJames
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#7
2 March, 2016, 15:20
Re: So....The old question
Feedback is pretty much what I expected to receive so It seems a easy choice to opt for the alternate tabs I had lined up (Infantry office tabs...The two-bar style design on a green background)
https://www.varusteleka.fi/pictures/2087.jpg
A prisoner of war is a man who tries to kill you and fails, and then asks you not to kill him
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ronin677
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#8
20 March, 2016, 23:06
Re: So....The old question
Never had a problem wearing it myself, and not really had any issues with anyone else. My grandfather fought in the Wehrmacht along side SS units, and so from a certain perspective its just like copying any loadout. Try it and if you get any hassle or feel uncomfortable then you can always bin the collar tabs, arm eagle and cuff title
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JREvans
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#9
20 March, 2016, 23:17
Re: So....The old question
There was a spat over Facebook about a lad showing up to a skirmish in full SS officer gear, accompanied by the Swatstika on the arm band. Big no no on any symbolism.
The uniform, yep - swatstika will just cause upset and potential issues. Not worth the hassle, not for an airsoft skirmish pal.
pewpew
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Gadge Europa
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#10
21 March, 2016, 09:01
Re: So....The old question
You have to remember that under the third reich even the most liberal of german soldiers wore at least two swastikas on his feldgrau uniform (one on his tunic, one on his cap and often a third on his belt).
The armband thing is a 'political SS' item and you'd be a dick (and historically incorrect) to wear it on a field uniform for a game, thats just saying 'look im a comedy prince harry nazi'. I can understand why someone got flak for doing this. Only guys with dodgy interests 're-enact' algemeine ss units. While im sure it was just ignorance on this guys part wearing stuff like that is *really* frowned on in re-enactment circles.
If you're worried about swastikas or runes wear a dot 44 uniform over a field shirt. This was often done in summer and while the dott 44 uniform was authorised for some insignia it was a 'cover all' so often had none on it... frontline soldiers often didnt have the time to put collar dogs and sleeve eagles on. I know my dot 44 suit is blank.
*personally* i'd leave a WWII uniform, and especially a german one, to the specialist WWII weekende events (there are loads of them and you'd be welcomed with open arms as the 'scene' is very receptive to new players) as for a start if everyone is in relatively modern stuff it looks a but wierd and jarring running around in ancient kit and secondly at an 'open' day you do risk offending someone in german kit, if you go to a WWII weekender by say Gunman Airsoft its obvious you're playing 'the bad guys' and not just a right wing tool because 50 per cent of the people there are wearing the same kit.
I've got tons of heer and ss kit but i keep it for re-enactment events and WWII airsoft games myself.
Happy to advise you on your kit if you need any help though.
- - - Updated - - -
Originally posted by
Eatmycamo
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Now I'm no German WWII professional, but out of curiosity, from some of the replies, did the SS not have all the better kit? It's my understanding that, although well equipped, Heer troops were generally worse off compared to the SS.
Not true in the slightest.
Contrary to popular belief the most common camo item was the 'zelthahn' shelter quarter which could be worn as a poncho or cape, *everyone* had one of these SS and Heer (just different camo designs).
Many SS units had shortages of camo items, particularly helmet covers and it was usually , in the early days at least, the assault engineers and recce units that got camo smocks. Most guys just wore feldgrau.
Some heer units were very very well equipped like 21st panzer in normandy had a lot of splinter camo smocks, helmet covers and the like. Panze lehr also had a fair amount of gucci kit and the 'grossdeutchland' were the german equivalent of the 'guards divisions' and also got pick of the kit.
SS units tended to get very good armoured vehicles first but also they got the dross too at times like old french somua tanks.
The whole german armed forces had terrible logistics problems. Partly caused by allied disruption to supplies, partly caused by having all your kit made by slave labour who hated your guts and sabotaged what they could, partly caused by 'private empire building' where heads of departments hoarded resources and for example the air force might have 2 million spare men but refused to let them be transfered to the army so made 'air force infantry units' and also and quite largely because so much random stuff was in service they had to supply far too many different types of spare parts and ammunition all over the place.. no standardisaton. I seem to recall reading that no fewer than 68 different types of armoured vehicle were in service at any one time... compare that to the allies who put nearly everything on sherman, jeep or cromwell chassis.
In short the german armed forces were 85 per cent horse drawn (the brits were 100 per cent mechanised) at their BEST... so most units were under equipped.
The thing is though war films, re-enactors and to a degree airsofters like to portray german units as super soldiers riding into battle on half tracks, covered in matching camo and wielding Stg44 assault rifles en masses. Most guys has a field grey uniform, carried a K98, never saw a tank and walked everwhere with the company stores on wagons pulled by carthorses.... thats just not sexy though is it
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steve grey
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#11
21 March, 2016, 09:48
Re: So....The old question
I can never, for the life of me, see why dressing up for airsoft, in whatever kit you decide on, (however unsavoury the origins of the uniform may be) should upset people, it's surely not very different, to anyone dressing up authentically, to act in a stageplay or film, this is after all, only role play. I wouldn't suggest you go into ASDA dressed like it, but for an airsoft game or a re-enactment, I can't see the problem.
"This is my rifle, it's just a toy one, there are many like it, they're toy ones too, without it, i'm £250 better off, without me, it gathers dust in the corner, we're just big boys playing soldiers, lets try and remember that" play fair have fun.
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DatJames
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#12
21 March, 2016, 10:56
Re: So....The old question
Ended up going with some Infantry Officer collar tags (The 2 white lines) just to avoid any drama. Loadout is coming along nicely, just need another paycheck for the M42 Smock and maybeee a repo helmet (Currently using a M92 helmet with a cover as it looks close enough but...The repo steal ones look rather inviting) ...Just need to hit the MG42 until she feeds...Anyone else have some feedback to help make a AGM MG42 feed? >.>
A prisoner of war is a man who tries to kill you and fails, and then asks you not to kill him
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JREvans
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#13
21 March, 2016, 11:18
Re: So....The old question
Originally posted by
DatJames
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Ended up going with some Infantry Officer collar tags (The 2 white lines) just to avoid any drama. Loadout is coming along nicely, just need another paycheck for the M42 Smock and maybeee a repo helmet (Currently using a M92 helmet with a cover as it looks close enough but...The repo steal ones look rather inviting) ...Just need to hit the MG42 until she feeds...Anyone else have some feedback to help make a AGM MG42 feed? >.>
From my understanding you need to fire in big bursts so it feeds enough or there's some
Mod you can do to the trigger, not entirely sure.
pewpew
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Gadge Europa
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#14
21 March, 2016, 12:02
Re: So....The old question
Originally posted by
steve grey
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I can never, for the life of me, see why dressing up for airsoft, in whatever kit you decide on, (however unsavoury the origins of the uniform may be) should upset people, it's surely not very different, to anyone dressing up authentically, to act in a stageplay or film, this is after all, only role play. I wouldn't suggest you go into ASDA dressed like it, but for an airsoft game or a re-enactment, I can't see the problem.
Im inclined to agree. It is just a game, we're just playing soldiers and people shouldn't get het up ...but i can see why they do sometimes as well.
I mean i regularly play in soviet kit and they were hardly liberal angels but some things i think are either *very* powerful negative images like swastikas (i've seen two many people in DPM dripping with swastika eagles etc who are clearly making a political statement and not wearing a 'costume' at open days and im always unhappy about that) that you're never going to re-affirm as a hindu life symbol or whatever *OR* you're dressing up as 'bad guys' that are very close to home or relevant. Like i think most people would consider turning up to a skirmish with your mates as an IRA active service unit or an ISIS suicide bomber to be in bad taste. To a lesser degree you probably could offend a few people playing in say kosovan liberation army (UCK) or serbian militia kit as those groups have killed a lot of people in very recent history and there are more than a few people who fled from that living in the UK, i know i used to know a girl who had to leave the balkans after 'bad stuff' went on.
But you know i just think its safer to leave anything 'contentious' to 'scenario driven events' where you sort of need them.
So while i wouldnt dress up as a para regiment, jump qualified sgt major for an open day i would if i was taking part in a sierra Leone milsim event
Depends on your local site i guess. I've played at local sites where 'anything goes' and i've played at some that dont like you wearing badges you have not been awarded for real as well.
I think if wearing really period specific kit is your thing (like it is for me) then you're really spoilt for choice with themed events. I've not done a WWII event for about a year tbh but last time I did *someone* was running a WWII game pretty much every month somewhere. I remember in 2005 *no one* was until my mates and I set up 'comrades in arms' to do purely WWII gaming.
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Siggi
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#15
2 April, 2016, 14:51
Re: So....The old question
Unfortunately a very large number of Brits are what I like to refer to as 'The Professionally Offended'. By which I mean they actively look for and seek issues over which to be offended. My site asked me to cover up my SS runes (collar tab) in case "anyone is offended." There are some truly sad people around.
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