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HPA and GBB limits law changes
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Heinz
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#76
4 February, 2017, 17:28
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
Originally posted by
colinjallen
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As Adrian has pointed out to me, the published version of the act no longer mentions that the power restrictions apply to weapons that were designed to be semi-automatic or full-automatic but to those which actually are semi- or full-automatic. The implication of this is that a full-auto weapon converted to a semi-only DMR is likely to be ok provided that it runs at or under 2.5J.
I wouldn't put money on it. Nothing has changed in the 1988 Firearms Act (as amended by the 1997 Act), so Section 7(1)(a) of it still applies. That means that any "lethal barrelled weapon" (which is what any full auto airsoft gun over 1.3J would be considered to be, therefore Sec 5), will still be Sec 5, no matter what you do to it.
AJW will already know that bit, assuming he's the same AJW that was sitting several rows in front of me in a certain lecture theatre at the UoW back in September 2015...
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AJW
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#77
4 February, 2017, 21:24
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
Originally posted by
Heinz
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I wouldn't put money on it. Nothing has changed in the 1988 Firearms Act (as amended by the 1997 Act), so Section 7(1)(a) of it still applies. That means that any "lethal barrelled weapon" (which is what any full auto airsoft gun over 1.3J would be considered to be, therefore Sec 5), will still be Sec 5, no matter what you do to it.
AJW will already know that bit, assuming he's the same AJW that was sitting several rows in front of me in a certain lecture theatre at the UoW back in September 2015...
Yes, Heinz raises another key aspect to be discussed further with the Home Office in conjunction with the ready convertibility matters. The difficulty remains that the law on this is untested and the only truly safe solution for us is further amendment to the law. Whilst good progress seems to have been made since that 2015 conference, these key aspects remain, but at least the Home Office team are willing to engage and have listened to, and acted on, positive suggestions.
Still a way to go though...
Thanks,
Adrian
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AJW
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#78
4 February, 2017, 23:48
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
And in case it helps explain the problem (appreciating many reasonable people would lose the will to live over all this complexity for what ought to be simple...), if a successive fire capable AEG (for example) was made and imported into the UK with a muzzle energy not exceeding 1.3j, then had its action locked to SA only and was then upgraded so as not to exceed 2.5j then it should be fine in law. However if the same AEG was imported, upgraded to no more than 2.5j muzzle energy and then had its action locked then it would likely not be lawful.
The reason for this is the s7 provisions that Heinz refers to. Once the successive fire capable airsoft gun exceeds 1.3j muzzle energy then it is likely that it would be a prohibited weapon (although this remains untested in the courts as far as I know). s7 means that once it is prohibited as a successive fire firearm (bearing in mind that at 1.3+j it is outside of both the current HO advice and forthcoming PCA2017 exemption) it cannot lose that status through conversion.
Howverr
- - - Updated - - -
However a prosecution would presumably have to show that the airsoft gun in quest actually had been operating in successive fire mode above 1.3j, as opposed to could have been converted to do so (with a more powerful spring for example). The test in this case would be what it actually did as opposed to what it could have been converted to do.
The matter of what it could have been converted to achieve is the "ready convertibility" question.
Adrian
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callumbagshaw
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#79
6 February, 2017, 08:58
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
I think when (if ) this gets Royal Ascension, some of these posts need plucking out into a sticky.
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Nwhite01
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#80
12 February, 2017, 21:21
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
This is FUBAR!!
I have hpa tipman and glock auto! I'm pissed as I think even if we can get round the law by locking it etc most sites out of
Shear Easley ness will just ban HPA anyway! Some sites have banned c02 anyway!
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Marc.RG1
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#81
12 February, 2017, 22:59
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
Originally posted by
Nwhite01
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This is FUBAR!!
I have hpa tipman and glock auto! I'm pissed as I think even if we can get round the law by locking it etc most sites out of
Shear Easley ness will just ban HPA anyway! Some sites have banned c02 anyway!
Spoke to one of my local gun shops the other day, and they are worried about this, and said it could have a huge impact on selling guns and the sport in general, they said they are waiting on the finial decision, but it could do major damage to the sport/hobby..
Im really put off to be honest, and just think even if you say put a npas kit in your trusted rifle you have had years, or even bought days before this stupid new rule comes out, you will have a gun you cant use and should hand in or disassemble or doctoer in someway, but even then, will locking it really count?, give it a few years ill not be surprised in the sport all together is banned.. its a joke to be honest..
ATB, Marc..
Some Guns In My Collection:
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W0lf
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#82
13 February, 2017, 07:53
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
They can't honestly expect you to hand over your gbbrs. What happens to all of the money you spent? Wouldn't they have to reimburse you?
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skyforger
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#83
13 February, 2017, 09:57
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
when real firarms became ilegal the govermnt tro my knowlegde did NOT reimburse people, if we have to i am literally out multiple of thousands of pounds... unless i make them all semi only
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Super64
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#84
13 February, 2017, 11:23
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
Once again a new law comes along which just seems to be implemented with the intention if killing off our sport, or making it as difficult as possible for people to enjoy it. The big problem is there are a lot of people giving their interpretation of the law, trying to be as helpful as possible, but what we really need is an official explanation of the law, it's effects and what people can and can't do to their guns. We've all spent a fortune on this hobby and the possibility that we've all just been told the we are now breaking the law is, rightly causing people concern.
That said, we all just need to remember that as always, if you use your guns properly, in the right places, then there should be no issue. As has been said, the police are not going to be raiding airsoft sites or the homes of airsofters just for something to do. They don't have the time or the resources for that unless you've done something stupid. Yes, there is always the potential that a concerned neighbour may call the police if you are seen plinking in the garden and you may have to answer a couple of questions. But, any guns confiscated need to be tested at specific Home Office laboratories and not by individual police forces and that costs money. It's quite expensive to send stuff off for testing and so this will only be done when an offence has already been committed, such as a public order offence, walking around the streets with a gun causing harassment, alarm and distress, threatening someone or shooting someone with a gun. The chances of ending up in court and then finding yourself looking at a 5 year sentence is fairly slim. Not impossible, but unlikely. The biggest issue is buying and selling on forums and then finding the guns are unusable at sites, which is no different from the situation we've always had.
The only stupid question is one that was never asked.
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ProfHappyCat
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#85
13 February, 2017, 11:32
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
Originally posted by
Marc.RG1
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Spoke to one of my local gun shops the other day, and they are worried about this, and said it could have a huge impact on selling guns and the sport in general, they said they are waiting on the finial decision, but it could do major damage to the sport/hobby..
Im really put off to be honest, and just think even if you say put a npas kit in your trusted rifle you have had years, or even bought days before this stupid new rule comes out, you will have a gun you cant use and should hand in or disassemble or doctoer in someway, but even then, will locking it really count?, give it a few years ill not be surprised in the sport all together is banned.. its a joke to be honest..
ATB, Marc..
I wouldn't rely on NPAS kits anyway as they are notably shite, and are adjustable up OR down, it's not fixed.
I've seen a few posts on the TM MWS Facebook page and a chap has managed to get his shooting 1.19J on a .4g BB with guarder black gas. All by installing an FG 20% reduction disc (which is suggest over the NPAS even before all this crap).
It's doable. But it'll be easier to sort when we have guidelines (I.e a certified weight to measure on etc etc)
Don't forget to submit feedback!
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Heinz
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#86
13 February, 2017, 13:05
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
Originally posted by
skyforger
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when real firarms became ilegal the govermnt tro my knowlegde did NOT reimburse people, if we have to i am literally out multiple of thousands of pounds... unless i make them all semi only
Compensation was paid to owners who had to surrender certain types of firearm due to changes brought in both the 1988 and 1997 Firearms (Amendment) Acts - i.e. bye bye semi-auto fullbore rifles in '88 and then pistols in '97.
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Heinz
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13 February, 2017, 13:16
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Jam_Man
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#87
13 February, 2017, 17:53
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
Originally posted by
callumbagshaw
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I think when (if ) this gets Royal Ascension, some of these posts need plucking out into a sticky.
Royal Assent was given on 31st January.
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Marc.RG1
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#88
13 February, 2017, 18:39
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
Originally posted by
Heinz
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Compensation was paid to owners who had to surrender certain types of firearm due to changes brought in both the 1988 and 1997 Firearms (Amendment) Acts - i.e. bye bye semi-auto fullbore rifles in '88 and then pistols in '97.
yeah and they got hardly anything compared to the price of some of their guns..
Some Guns In My Collection:
Walther Lever Action - TM Hi-Capa Gold Match - Umarex Beretta 92fs - Colt Custom 1911 - WE Mak - Colt SAA .45 - & More
My Youtube Review/Shooting Channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmI...TEBvLnSJ7XCh1g
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lemon191
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#89
14 February, 2017, 00:42
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
I think saying it's going to kill the sport is a bit much , whilst it's a bit of a rough time with the uncertainty involved for the gas and HPA users it's not about to kill the sport. Hopefully ukara/ukapu lobbying will have helped educate the people deciding the laws and guidelines and something gets set in stone soon. I don't think anyone can deny though with the potential damage HPA can do it's fair to require some rules in place to ensure safety in game while still allowing those who enjoy using them to carry on
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Defender-90
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#90
15 February, 2017, 21:02
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
I had not been paying attention. Jesus F*cking Christ, it never ends!
I had no intention of using my GBBR for games without getting an NPAS for it. Fortunately I'm pretty sure it is shooting pathetically low nowadays as .24s fall to earth at 30 yards, now I'll have to make sure it gets pegged at 1.3 joules when I scrape together the readies to get it fixed.
As it is, it seems there's no great problem in easily swapping out springs on an AEG and it sounds like an NPAS could easily be illegal too. Sure the cops have better things to do, but one could be only a malicious phone call away from time in cells. And believe me
all a liar has to do is call the cops and mention the word "gun" and they will respond to the complainants wishes, whether true or not. Believe me.
I could see the wisdom in prohibiting game play with greater than 1.3 j full autos. I could easily go along with making it illegal to shoot another person with such a thing. But to blanket make them illegal? No, just plain wrong! Especially as real air rifles are 12 foot per pounds and that's barely lethal.
This law is just pathetic; yet another frog boiling exercise incrementally whittling away at our freedoms. This incremental approach works for the antis, and it works well, after all who thinks all these ill advised "Dangerous Dogs Laws" will ever be abolished?
This sort of thing makes me despair at our mainstream parties. It truly does.
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