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HPA and GBB limits law changes

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  • #16
    Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes

    What gas would they test a GBB with? Would they run propane through something designed for 134a and then say it's over the limit?

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes

      The testing regime has not yet been defined; however, they could reasonably run it on black gas.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes

        Yeah so what about the guns like the WE scar h gbbr that fires over 400fps, are they going to be banned or re-manufacturered.?????

        These people who make up the blooming airsoft rules/laws need to stick to them and stop changing them.

        ATB Marc..
        Some Guns In My Collection:
        Walther Lever Action - TM Hi-Capa Gold Match - Umarex Beretta 92fs - Colt Custom 1911 - WE Mak - Colt SAA .45 - & More
        My Youtube Review/Shooting Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmI...TEBvLnSJ7XCh1g

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes

          Originally posted by Marc.RG1 View Post
          Yeah so what about the guns like the WE scar h gbbr that fires over 400fps, are they going to be banned or re-manufacturered.?????

          These people who make up the blooming airsoft rules/laws need to stick to them and stop changing them.

          ATB Marc..
          Hope fully they sort it asap as I really want the Scar H. also saw some company saying they are 330 of a .2. Can't say who as it's the rules

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes

            If it is capable of shooting full auto at 400fps on a 0.2g BB, it will be classed as a firearm; unlicensed possession could see the owner sharing a cell for five years with a 20 stone Hells Angel who insists on calling him Lola.

            According to a senior police officer that I know, it is vanishingly unlikely that the police are going to be randomly raiding airsoft sites or the homes of airsofters to check their guns; they do not really have the resources to do this. However, if, for example, an airsofter shoots in their back garden and a neighbour reports that a firearm is being used, the police are likely to take it seriously and seize any airsoft guns found in the house. If they fail testing, said airsofter is in deep poo.

            Could this mean an end to gas and HPA? Quite possibly, unless they are redesigned to not be capable of running above the defined limits.

            If WE think that the UK market for the GBB Scar H is large enough to make redesigning it worthwhile, they will probably do so; if they do not think so, they will not.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes

              Originally posted by JellyBelly16 View Post
              Hope fully they sort it asap as I really want the Scar H. also saw some company saying they are 330 of a .2. Can't say who as it's the rules

              Me too, that's the gun I want next..
              Some Guns In My Collection:
              Walther Lever Action - TM Hi-Capa Gold Match - Umarex Beretta 92fs - Colt Custom 1911 - WE Mak - Colt SAA .45 - & More
              My Youtube Review/Shooting Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmI...TEBvLnSJ7XCh1g

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes

                Originally posted by colinjallen View Post
                If it is capable of shooting full auto at 400fps on a 0.2g BB, it will be classed as a firearm; unlicensed possession could see the owner sharing a cell for five years with a 20 stone Hells Angel who insists on calling him Lola.

                According to a senior police officer that I know, it is vanishingly unlikely that the police are going to be randomly raiding airsoft sites or the homes of airsofters to check their guns; they do not really have the resources to do this. However, if, for example, an airsofter shoots in their back garden and a neighbour reports that a firearm is being used, the police are likely to take it seriously and seize any airsoft guns found in the house. If they fail testing, said airsofter is in deep poo.

                Could this mean an end to gas and HPA? Quite possibly, unless they are redesigned to not be capable of running above the defined limits.

                If WE think that the UK market for the GBB Scar H is large enough to make redesigning it worthwhile, they will probably do so; if they do not think so, they will not.

                Thanks for the info mate.

                Oh hang on, is my memory serving me correctly in thinking the rule already stands though and has done for years that a full auto airsoft gun is not allowed to be 370+ fps and 500fps for semi, or am I remembering wrong??? If so we are not going to see any difference..

                If they are not careful it could be the end of airsoft all together.. I think we just have to enjoy what we can while we can..

                From experience though i can tell you the so called laws and rules around airsoft is more complicated and less straightforward then getting a FAC and owning real firearms, and in a lot of cases the rules around airsoft is just getting silly now in my opinion, it's such a shame, it's a great sport/hobby.

                It's no wonder people are put off by airsoft and stick with airguns too as its a hell of a lot more plain and simple.

                ATB, Marc
                Some Guns In My Collection:
                Walther Lever Action - TM Hi-Capa Gold Match - Umarex Beretta 92fs - Colt Custom 1911 - WE Mak - Colt SAA .45 - & More
                My Youtube Review/Shooting Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmI...TEBvLnSJ7XCh1g

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes

                  Originally posted by Hangtight View Post
                  There have been cases of confiscated air rifles being subjected to testing with a variety of pellets, some of which can push the output up over 12ftlb when it runs at, say 11.5ftlb when fed its usual diet. Giving the ease with which gas and hpa rifles can exhibit joule creep with heavier ammo, perhaps this should be borne in mind. However, instances of confiscation from responsible air rifle owners have so far been rare, usually only taking place when a complaint has been made. But it only takes a neighbour to object to you plinking in the garden (which has happened) to result in a knock on the door from the police.
                  There are numerous cases of the police changing entire valves in HPA air-rifles, when they had a hard-on for somebody who didn't ask "how high, sir?" when ordered to jump. Don't, ever, underestimate the police capacity for spite and criminal behaviour.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes

                    No, the existing laws that affect airsoft do not include any power limits. All that has existed until now is a statement by the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO), which is not legally binding; that statement has the same power limits as the new bill.

                    The new bill actually makes airsoft more secure as it takes airsoft guns out of any definition as a firearm provided that they do not exceed the legal limits. Previously, our only defence against a perfectly legitimate prosecution for possession of an imitation firearm (punishable by 12 months imprisonment) was based on a Secretary of State's opinion, something that could change overnight and probably would have done had Corbynite Labour come into power.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes

                      Originally posted by colinjallen View Post
                      The new bill also defines the power limits below which various types of airsoft guns will not be considered as firearms. If they can go over that limit without being structurally modified, and if the police test them and they do, they can be considered as firearms and the owner is at risk of prosecution.

                      The inference in the bill is that, for example, opening a gun to change a spring would be seen as a structural modification, whereas using stronger gas or opening a valve up would not be.

                      The sections that you quoted from the 1968 Act will no longer apply once the bill becomes law as an airsoft gun that is under the relevant power limit is no longer considered a firearm, so the sections will not apply to it.

                      Hopefully, this is clear.


                      Sorry to doubt, but where are you getting this information from?

                      There is a lot of misinformation being spread at the moment by people putting over their interpretations of the situation.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes

                        From the bill itself, from my tame group of lawyers and a friend who is a senior officer in the Met.

                        When 12 lawyers read the same piece of legislation and independently come up with the same views, I find that convincing.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes

                          Originally posted by colinjallen View Post
                          From the bill itself, from my tame group of lawyers and a friend who is a senior officer in the Met.

                          When 12 lawyers read the same piece of legislation and independently come up with the same views, I find that convincing.
                          IF you have had lawyers review it thats great, its hard to know who actually knows and who is just interpreting it.

                          So whats the deal with HPA then and the video from Grange airsoft released today that says just disabling the regulator once set at the correct level would make any HPA legal?

                          If they are correct and AEG are definitely not affected by being able to upgraded then this really is a storm in a tea cup.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes

                            The issue with the Grange video is that, if the regulator is part of the tank/hose system rather than part of the gun, the police would be able to test the gun with another tank/hose system at any setting. The bill only mentions that an "airsoft gun" has limits above which it may not be able to go so, if they connect a different tank/hose system to the gun and can get the gun to run at greater than 1.3J or 2.5J, you are potentially screwed.

                            However, this all depends on the police having a reason to check your gun, the inclination to do so and the resources to do so.

                            With regards to AEGs, the hive-mind view is that there is no issue if the gun is below limits even when allowing for any joule creep.

                            - - - Updated - - -

                            "There are numerous cases of the police changing entire valves in HPA air-rifles, when they had a hard-on for somebody who didn't ask "how high, sir?" when ordered to jump. Don't, ever, underestimate the police capacity for spite and criminal behaviour."

                            Can you provide verifiable evidence for that?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes

                              Still not totally clear then and Grange are therefore distributing yet more mis-information which is frustrating.

                              Do you have a link to the new bill itself, only seeing what others have copied and pasted.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes

                                Originally posted by colinjallen View Post

                                "There are numerous cases of the police changing entire valves in HPA air-rifles, when they had a hard-on for somebody who didn't ask "how high, sir?" when ordered to jump. Don't, ever, underestimate the police capacity for spite and criminal behaviour."

                                Can you provide verifiable evidence for that?
                                The cases I came to hear of were a long time ago (around ten years) when I was making and selling valves. Mine were variable (sub-FAC and FAC with substitution of parts that could NOT be done in the field and required special tools) and the question came up of what would happen if they were tested. My stance was that the police were not allowed, and would not, subject a component to mechanical change. I was then informed, and pointed to the records of cases online, of where the police had not only swapped-out components but had swapped-out entire valve assemblies. One of these cases was so egregious it had attracted press attention as it constituted a perversion of the course of justice. Lucky for that guy it got such attention, pity all those who didn't and were falsely convicted.

                                I don't have the links any more but I'd guess the info is still out there if you go on a google hunt.

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