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Lardassmonkey
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#16
1 March, 2011, 09:59
Re: captured weapons
Nor do your hands stick to bakelite, which is what the MP40s grips are made from. Besides soldiers would have gloves in winter. It was liked because of the reliability and the firepower of the drum mag.
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whiteman
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#17
15 March, 2011, 00:44
Re: captured weapons
yankees in italy with captured polish made kb UR
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wz._35_anti-tank_rifle
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#18
24 March, 2011, 15:22
Re: captured weapons
seen some pics of germans on this site with m1 carbines and thompsons and stens etc etc etc
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...2021131487c5d0
hope i am ok posting this as its an historic referance type forum only . if not i am very sorry to the admin i checked rules but found nothing about posting the link
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fallschirmjager
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#19
20 May, 2011, 20:45
Re: captured weapons
I'm pretty sure I've heard about captured Brownings being used as well
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wintergraves
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#20
20 May, 2011, 23:06
Re: captured weapons
The British Sten, while it was an official military firearm, was developed specifically to be produced by improvised workshops. When the British Expeditionary Force withdrew from France in the Dunkirk evacuation of 1940, large numbers of arms were abandoned, leaving the British military under-armed. Two Britons, Sheppard and Turpin (the "S" and "T" in "Sten") designed and built a prototype submachine gun in 30 days' time, to be used to re-arm the British soldiers as quickly as possible. Intended to resist an anticipated German invasion, the gun was designed to fire captured Axis 9x19mm ammunition, and was simple to construct, with a minimum of precision parts. Production was implemented as a decentralized assembly line, with production operations spread out to over 300 improvised production facilities throughout Britain. An additional advantage of the deliberately primitive construction of the Sten was a great reduction in production costs. The initial production cost of the Sten was approximately US$12 per unit, and quickly dropped to US$8 with improvements in production techniques, a fraction of the approximately US$120 required for an American Thompson or the German MP40 submachine guns.
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Billyb
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#21
20 May, 2011, 23:09
Re: captured weapons
Brens, Lee-Enfields, Thompsons, BARs etc etc were all used by Nazi Germany.
They often had specific designations...
PPSHs being especially favoured, as discussed earlier.
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Silent-Sniper
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#22
20 May, 2011, 23:30
Re: captured weapons
Oh and 1911's were also used under the designation "Pistole 660"
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dadio
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#23
22 July, 2012, 11:19
Re: captured weapons
its a common mistake to think some pictures of german troops show the bren but the bren was derived from the austrian made vz zb 26,verry similar to look at but had a straight magazine rather than the bren's curved one ,also the under barrel gas tube system is different but at a glance the bren and zb26 look the same.im sure some captured bren's were used but for the most part they are zb26's in the photo's.as Austria was in the axis the production of the zb26 carried on and was primarily used by ss units as most mg 42's and 34's were earmarked for regular army and the ss had to find other supplies.
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Apurturesci
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#24
22 July, 2012, 12:07
Re: captured weapons
As said many guns, like the STEN and Hi-Power were produced in German factories and given their own designation. Whilst not captured weapons exactly, it means a German soldier could be using any number of Allied designed weapons, easily justifiable for an airsofter.
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No1_sonuk
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#25
23 July, 2012, 13:59
Re: captured weapons
Originally posted by
dadio
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its a common mistake to think some pictures of german troops show the bren but the bren was derived from the austrian made vz zb 26,verry similar to look at but had a straight magazine rather than the bren's curved one ,also the under barrel gas tube system is different but at a glance the bren and zb26 look the same.im sure some captured bren's were used but for the most part they are zb26's in the photo's.as Austria was in the axis the production of the zb26 carried on and was primarily used by ss units as most mg 42's and 34's were earmarked for regular army and the ss had to find other supplies.
The ZB vz. 26 was Czech, not Austrian. The BR in Bren was from Brno.
During one of the early invasion scenes in "The Longest Day", a German soldier can briefly be seen carrying a ZB26. I think it was one of the scenes where the dummies were being dropped, but I can't be sure.
Originally posted by
Apurturesci
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As said many guns, like the STEN and Hi-Power were produced in German factories and given their own designation. Whilst not captured weapons exactly, it means a German soldier could be using any number of Allied designed weapons, easily justifiable for an airsofter.
IIRC, the Germans made a version of the Sten that had a fixed feed coming from below, like the MP38 and MP40.
Hi-powers were originally made by FN in Belgium before the war. At the start of the war, blueprints, etc. were taken to England, then on to Canada, where Englis started production. The FN factory in Belgium was taken over by the Germans, and production continued.
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Gadge Europa
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#26
23 July, 2012, 14:23
Re: captured weapons
For what its worth captured weapons were very few and far between for a number of reasons.
Firstly it means you have to carry another type of ammo in your section, another type of magazine... really impracticle if your comrade need you to share ammo.
Your supply chain is usually completley unable to resupply you (there are exceptions where massive ammounts of weapons, mags and ammo are captured and the item does go onto limited issue, such as Mp40s used by soviet scouts and the mass issue of panzerfausts to soviet units in 44)
Firing a weapon with a distinctive signature of the enemy is usually a bad idea and attracts more friendly fire.
Trophy weapons also tend to get you a severe kicking if not a lynching on capture
Lastly you've got to account for the personal weapon you were issued so you either take a charge for losing army property or you lug two weapons about with you for the duration.
The photographs of germans with M1s is part of a well known series of heavily staged photographs. The burning us supply column in the pics had been hit an hour or so earlier.. its probably where the brownings and m1 come from.
Most captured weapons were issued to third line static formations where ammo ressuply was less of an issue as they were not going anywhere and you could stockpile it. Consequently you see pics of german troops on the atlantic wall with large numbers of thompsons.
The germans did indeed give each captured weapon and tank its own german designation but i think that says more about the german mindset for organisation than there need to issue them out.
The only real examples i can recall of captured weaponry being used 'en masse' are the Oxf and Buck after the capture of pegasus bridge. Their official hisotry states that as they had been in the line for nearly 30 days without relief after the bridge assault nearly every man had aquired a german Mp40... all their rifles were retained however and carried about behind them on a handcart.
PPSH and Sten were loved by german veterans because of the fact you can get really low when you fire them prone... they were few and far between however and the owner would often tie it to their wrist before going to sleep to avoid if being stolen by his comrades (source: Kershaw, It Never Snows in September)
Notably at the battle for Arnhem the British Airborne (who had expected to be there for two days) ran out of amunition as the RAF was dropping it all in German held areas (the drop zones had been overrun). Consequently they were armed to a large part with MG42s, Mp40s and K98s and the german reserve battalions refitting in the area armed themselves with Brens, Stens and No4s... there is some famous footage of luftwaffe troops using british brens balanced on supply crates to shoot down RAF ressuply aircraft. The Bren *does* look like the Czech Zb VZ 26 (on which it was based) but in this instance they are actually using brens.
This swapover of weapons caused no end of 'tactical' trouble at Arnhem as nobody had any idea where the enemy were as , as happened in one case in the same kershaw book, a cut off section of German infantry legged it to the sound of an MG42 hoping to reach the friendly positions and ran smack into a 42 being crewed by brit paras.
My thought is that *if you can* avoid 'captured weapons' as it isnt ideal but a German in an airsoft game with a thompson is preferable to one with an M4
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BAMF
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#27
23 July, 2012, 14:27
Re: captured weapons
Originally posted by
Gadge Europa
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For what its worth captured weapons were very few and far between for a number of reasons.
Firstly it means you have to carry another type of ammo in your section, another type of magazine... really impracticle if your comrade need you to share ammo.
Your supply chain is usually completley unable to resupply you (there are exceptions where massive ammounts of weapons, mags and ammo are captured and the item does go onto limited issue, such as Mp40s used by soviet scouts and the mass issue of panzerfausts to soviet units in 44)
Firing a weapon with a distinctive signature of the enemy is usually a bad idea and attracts more friendly fire.
Trophy weapons also tend to get you a severe kicking if not a lynching on capture
Lastly you've got to account for the personal weapon you were issued so you either take a charge for losing army property or you lug two weapons about with you for the duration.
The photographs of germans with M1s is part of a well known series of heavily staged photographs. The burning us supply column in the pics had been hit an hour or so earlier.. its probably where the brownings and m1 come from.
Most captured weapons were issued to third line static formations where ammo ressuply was less of an issue as they were not going anywhere and you could stockpile it. Consequently you see pics of german troops on the atlantic wall with large numbers of thompsons.
The germans did indeed give each captured weapon and tank its own german designation but i think that says more about the german mindset for organisation than there need to issue them out.
The only real examples i can recall of captured weaponry being used 'en masse' are the Oxf and Buck after the capture of pegasus bridge. Their official hisotry states that as they had been in the line for nearly 30 days without relief after the bridge assault nearly every man had aquired a german Mp40... all their rifles were retained however and carried about behind them on a handcart.
PPSH and Sten were loved by german veterans because of the fact you can get really low when you fire them prone... they were few and far between however and the owner would often tie it to their wrist before going to sleep to avoid if being stolen by his comrades (source: Kershaw, It Never Snows in September)
Notably at the battle for Arnhem the British Airborne (who had expected to be there for two days) ran out of amunition as the RAF was dropping it all in German held areas (the drop zones had been overrun). Consequently they were armed to a large part with MG42s, Mp40s and K98s and the german reserve battalions refitting in the area armed themselves with Brens, Stens and No4s... there is some famous footage of luftwaffe troops using british brens balanced on supply crates to shoot down RAF ressuply aircraft. The Bren *does* look like the Czech Zb VZ 26 (on which it was based) but in this instance they are actually using brens.
This swapover of weapons caused no end of 'tactical' trouble at Arnhem as nobody had any idea where the enemy were as , as happened in one case in the same kershaw book, a cut off section of German infantry legged it to the sound of an MG42 hoping to reach the friendly positions and ran smack into a 42 being crewed by brit paras.
My thought is that *if you can* avoid 'captured weapons' as it isnt ideal but a German in an airsoft game with a thompson is preferable to one with an M4
Very informative actually Gadge...ta.
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No1_sonuk
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#28
23 July, 2012, 14:43
Re: captured weapons
ISTR the ammo supply problem is the reason the Russians never issued the Thompsons they were sent.
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Gadge Europa
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#29
23 July, 2012, 15:22
Re: captured weapons
Yep, i'd read that too.
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dadio
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#30
23 July, 2012, 17:49
Re: captured weapons
oops of cours brno was czech not austrian sorry well spotted.
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