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Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost
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TOBI
Lieutenant Colonel
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#31
13 June, 2012, 14:28
Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost
You can't have the same performance since my rewound motor is better fact. Your hop hasn't been modded in the same way I've modded my hop so you might have more or less range, although when I took it out the last game I managed to play with my ptw despite heavy wind and .28g bb's I was hitting man sized targets at 70m.
besides give it a few months and you lot will all be sticking Tac's super hop in your gun and be thinking stt....who
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madwelshman
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#32
13 June, 2012, 14:52
Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost
How much is this fabled "2 and a half years in the making" tack hop mod?
Because I know how much a complete cnc machined purpose built one is going to cost from stts, one for a ptw, one for a ctw, and I bet you its going to be half the price of a bedroom bodge
i'd bet both my ctw 416 and my ptw 07 on it!
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crasstoe
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#33
13 June, 2012, 15:02
Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost
As a complete outsider to this thread (I own neither a PTW nor CTW) but going on what I have read throughout the internet and the experiences I have had borrowing a PTW I would buy a CTW MX3 over a PTW if the reviews are good. As mentioned earlier in here, for those that are not loyal to a brand or don't own a PTW the CTWs are just too cheap to pass on.
The ghost certainly looks interesting. Being on such a limited run must meen room for custom builds if you need something specific, say different springs fitted at the factory on order?
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madwelshman
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#34
13 June, 2012, 15:04
Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost
springs take seconds to fit matey, regardless of price or platform, its a perk of the ptw/ctw platform
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loki7491
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#35
13 June, 2012, 15:05
Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost
I am pretty sure a rewound motor and a modded hop do not count as out of the box, like for like.
I can show you a Ford Fiesta that would rip the arse off of an M5 or an AMG Merc, but as it wasn't bought straight from the dealership i can't sit here and say Ford Fiestas are faster / more powerfull / better accellerating than a BMW M5... A one off modded gun cannot really be classed in the same argument as mass produced out of the factory, which is precicely what this discussion is about.
I could mod a springer pistol to out range your PTW... i would need the strength of a pissed off silver back to cock it and it would probably explode after a couple of shots... but by your rationale my modded springer is now better than a Systema PTW... Cool
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crasstoe
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#36
13 June, 2012, 15:08
Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost
I used the spring as an example, a bad one it would seem. Surely Celcius would be able to accommodate something custom onto a Ghost since they only make 4?
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loki7491
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#37
13 June, 2012, 15:30
Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost
I like the idea of a completely custom, one off , built for me gun but what sort of "custom" are you thinking?
If it is something that requires machining, the cost goes up as the machine needs to be programmed... then if you are only making one item, the cost of NOT mass producing something else compounds the cost.
I think i would like something like a Bushmaster front end but with sections of RIS machined into it rather that attached. If i have to pay somebody to design it, prgramme the machine, manufacture it, test it to destruction and then do me a "good" one, i would have to pay all of those costs myself. If i decide to knock out 1000 of them, each item now only needs to be 1/1000th of the cost plus profit margins.
I would also like to see a 4 position selector similar to the MP5 series. I will have a programmable mosfet if i have to, but being able to switch at the flick of the thumb between three round and full auto is something i would like... i have no idea how much that sort of custom work would cost...
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crasstoe
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#38
13 June, 2012, 15:33
Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost
My point exactly Loki. I imagine they would be happy to do it, but as you have said who knows how much that could cost! I look forward to the reviews when these are available, should make for an interesting read.
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TOBI
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#39
13 June, 2012, 15:34
Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost
Originally posted by
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I am pretty sure a rewound motor and a modded hop do not count as out of the box, like for like.
I can show you a Ford Fiesta that would rip the arse off of an M5 or an AMG Merc, but as it wasn't bought straight from the dealership i can't sit here and say Ford Fiestas are faster / more powerfull / better accellerating than a BMW M5... A one off modded gun cannot really be classed in the same argument as mass produced out of the factory, which is precicely what this discussion is about.
I could mod a springer pistol to out range your PTW... i would need the strength of a pissed off silver back to cock it and it would probably explode after a couple of shots... but by your rationale my modded springer is now better than a Systema PTW... Cool
my gun unlike your springer still fires at 300 fps. Also why aren't celcius doing this out of the factory? people have doing this for years and yet still haven't made any significant changes.
The way the gearbox is designed I'm pretty sure your not going to be able to get anything other than a standard m4 selector and I find it highly unlikely that they'll re engineer the gearbox just so you can have a 4 position selector as is it nigh on impossible to gain an ambi selector
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#40
13 June, 2012, 15:43
Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost
Why arn't they doing what out of the factory? the mods?
If that is what you are refering to i THINK it is because they supply all over the world and most are "happy" with what they get.
We are essentially the MaxPower generation of Airsoft... The manufacturers have designed, trialed and developed this things before mass production. They are out a few hours before they are being "improved" by somebody.
BMW were "happy" with their 5 series... their "M" division made it better (for a premium). Think of Celcius as BMW and STTS as their "M" division.
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happyal
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#41
13 June, 2012, 15:50
Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost
I think that this thread is getting away from the topic of the New CTW's.
We could do with a CTW vs PTW thread in general, but I've got the feeling that this topic is going to go on for a long, long time.
Tobi, what are Systsema doing from the factory that is different than Celcius? If I where to buy a new Systema I would buy it directly from a person who mods them (I'm not sure if I'm allowed to name him) with his mods already done.
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dannyeprice23
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#42
13 June, 2012, 16:08
I don't know what the new mx3 will be like, and nobody does until it's out. However thus far I have heard one or two horror stories about the previous models....buuuut, have heard a lot of horror stories about the PTW also.
CTW or PTW, you could end up with a lemon...however if you were to put two proven work horses next to each other, there really isn't too much difference in my opinion. The build quality is undeniably better on the PTW, fact due to the more expensive materials used to make them, body gaps etc are not as neat....saying this, they are still of very high quality and these are things hard to see by the naked eye, hardly noticeable, but people who care about things like that should sway towards a PTW, if you are not that anal, then a CTW is for you.
If performance is what people want then I personally can't see much in it. And in terms of reliability, a LOT of things would have to go wrong with the CTW for you to have to shell out on repairs to equal the price of a PTW.
Now I have a PTW on the way, but chose over the CTW PURELY because it's one of the prettiest rifles I've ever seen, if I had seen a CTW first which I took a right fancy to, then I'd have gone for that.
This is an argument that is never going to end as people have different experiences.
I had a very highly upgraded TM recoil cqbr which had absolutely everything both a PTW and a CTW have, but with recoil.....and EEEEEASILY equalled them in performance, maybe even surpassed them. Obviously the trigger response wasn't quite as good.
Systema are going to have to buck up their ideas in my eyes, Celsius are going to improve their product further for a fraction of the price, and systema will at some point become the minority in the training weapon department.
On another note, yes there is the tw5, and now a 416......but I think if either companies bring out some further models, ie AKs, G36 etc that will put a shit load more cash in the bank for them.
“A prisoner of war is a man who tries to kill you and fails, and then asks you not to kill him.”
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#43
13 June, 2012, 16:13
Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost
Originally posted by
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I think that this thread is getting away from the topic of the New CTW's.
We could do with a CTW vs PTW thread in general, but I've got the feeling that this topic is going to go on for a long, long time.
Tobi, what are Systsema doing from the factory that is different than Celcius? If I where to buy a new Systema I would buy it directly from a person who mods them (I'm not sure if I'm allowed to name him) with his mods already done.
I'm not going on about systema's being better that's not the point that I'm trying to make rather point out the flaws in the ctw and hope that they listen. I take it stts listen to their customers (I'm not a customer yet I would be if they incorporated my suggestions) I'm just pointing out certain things that they should do out of the box to differentiate their brand from systema since they want to improve on them do they not?
I've got a 2012 ptw yeah this was more expensive that the ctw but the major cause for concern on a ptw is the motor once this is fixed then you shouldn't have any issues, madwelshman how many ctw's have you had back on the warranty?
Al It's hard to say to be honest since I've not had the chance to look at the new factory built models I've just got the new 2012 challenge kit, having seen someone with a ctw hop their range is similar the only difference being the shot to shot consistency, mine having been modded was more consistent and I found my hop could be adjusted via small increments the hop on their ctw was more Loose so to speak. I couldn't tell you about how the standard motors compare since I don't own any, I've moistureproofed my own gun and the electronics are the FCC mini mosfet the cpu is standard and I've yet to run into any problems with it.
My whole point is there are fundamental things they should have drawn from the mx2 the fact that people want LIpo's in the buffer tube, a different size buffer tube which they should be incorporating as opposed to the Ghost edition.
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westywesty84
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#44
19 June, 2012, 09:50
Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost
Heres a question...if you bought a brand new CTW from the company who shalt not be named...knowing that ALL standard motors in ptw/ctw shit themselves....and i handed the gun to him who shalt not be named to get the motor sorted, because for £80 you might as well as there pretty much bullet proof after hes sorted them....does that void the warranty on the CTW should I have any issues with the rest of the weapon?
I for one am excited about what celcius are doing, more so after an expanding family a PTW is a bit more out of reach than a ctw.
And comparing cars to me is daft, there are so many differences between cars, which is why they have very different price tags...with the ctw/ptw comparison, you fill the mag the same with beebs, you pull the trigger...beebs come out...like danny has said...theres issues with both...so why pay an extra £5-600....when reliability is still questionable on both sides? but with CTW you get a warranty...no brainer inmy eyes. you wouldnt buy a car without a warranty for more money when the same is on offer, cheaper with warranty....
I watched a 2012 PTW shit itself after a 24 hour event....and ive seen a ctw not even get out of its box(very early one)!
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westywesty84
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19 June, 2012, 09:59
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Originally posted by
Artekus
It looks like I'll need to brush up on my fieldcraft/untutored thrashing about in the undergrowth
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loki7491
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#45
19 June, 2012, 10:10
Re: Celcius MX3 / Team Alpha 2 / HK416 TA 2 / CTW Ghost
I would imagine if you mess with the internals at all, the warranty is void on the whole gun - which would make sense.
The same is true with just about every product on Earth. Warrantys are for manufacturers specifications - any change from the original puts it out of spec.
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