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Trading and you - A few pointers

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  • Trading and you - A few pointers

    I've noticed alot of people posting saying they haven't received their goods or they think they may have been scammed, so I'm going to write up this little helper guide to help people keep themselves safe from these problems.

    Intro

    Most of the time, people see pictures and pay up the amount asked for the item they want. They don't know who they're trading with and they assume it will be safe. Unfortunately it won't. There are very easy ways of ripping people off if they make a few slight mistakes. Everyone can make these mistakes and most people aren't aware they're doing it until it's too late. Even I didn't know of these until someone warned me about them and I was half-scammed out of something I sold on eBay. Thankfully I got half my money back so it wasn't too bad, only £10.

    Various scams

    The postage scam
    This is one of the easiest ways to get caught out of your goods if you're a seller. People may request you to send your items by standard First Class or Second Class. Do NOT ever do this. If someone pays you with PayPal and you DON'T send your item by RECORDED delivery, they can get their money back instantly. PayPal only accept tracking numbers as proof of postage and once they close a case, they won't re-open it. Always send your items by recorded delivery if someone pays with PayPal.

    The PayPal scam
    If you're a buyer, someone may request that you send the money marked as a Gift or Service. If this is not the case, do NOT do it. If you send your money marked as anything but payment for goods, then they can just keep the money and not send your items. This is because seeing as you marked it as a gift or service, PayPal can't tell any better. If it's marked as goods then it's showing PayPal you're paying for an item. This way, if you don't receive your item, you can put up a dispute against the seller and because they didn't post the item, they have no tracking number. Therefore PayPal will give you your money back and you won't lose a penny.




    General tips

    - Always send your items as recorded
    - Always send money over PayPal as payment for goods
    - Always get the details of the seller or buyer, preferably including their phone number (tell them to text you or confirm you've text them to make sure it's the right number)
    - Always be weary. If someone keeps stalling with their goods postage, recall the sale, get your money back and find a different seller. If you leave it too long, you won't be able to dispute your PayPal transaction.
    - Check some basic info on your seller or buyer. On these forums, check the Rate a Trader section to see if someone has any feedback. If they have about 5 posts, be very carefuly as it could very well be a scammer.



    I hope this will help out some people.

  • #2
    One additional note, always pay via credit card via paypal and not instant bank transfer. If it comes to claiming then you can approach your card company as well as paypal. If all else fails, small claims court is a pretty sure fire way of securing a refund.

    Just to clarify (and not many people know this) but if you do "instant" bank transfer via debit card for a transaction, it is still possible to "chargeback" in the same way as a credit card but ONLY if the transaction came out of an overdraft facility.
    Technically, if you used the debit card to borrow, then you get the same protection as a credit card from the CCA (Consumer Credit Act). The FOS (Financial Ombudsman Service) states that if you have an overdraft facility, and the card CREATES the overdraft (so if you go from £10 to -£100), the card becomes a ëcredit tokení under the term of the CCA.

    So if you have an overdraft, it is certainly possible to utilize this, but it would be a bit more inconvenient than just using a CC and more complicated which is why it was generally omitted in the basic guide above; for every purchase, you will likely have to first get close to emptying your bank account, and use the card and create the token by going from + to -, and refill to make sure you donít end up getting (illegal) bank charges, especially due to the size of transactions (as most overdrafts go up to maybe £500 or £1000). This makes it impractical unless with foresight you think that particular transaction is worth the hassle.
    Current Armoury
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    • #3
      Re: Trading and you - A few pointers

      when you open up a dipsute against someone, what actually happends to them. can they not buy anything till the dispute has been sorted?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Trading and you - A few pointers

        The money being disputed is put into PayPal's hands until the dispute has been settled, so nobody has it until they decide who.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Trading and you - A few pointers

          ok, i recently traded with "funkatiro" who i sent money as a gift (not knowing about the differences etc...) fortunately for me, he was a good honest guy, and my package arrived with efficiency and ease...(cheers)

          anyway, if you send the money over paypal as GOODS, not like me and are supposedly covered by paypal...and then they don't send the package, give a tracking number or anything....what do you do?...do you submit a complaint to paypal and use PM's as evidence?....

          also, in biilywu's tips bits, he says "always send as recorded"
          does parcelforce 48, count? because you have to sign and get a tracking number so?....




          i was fortunate and i know most people on the forums are honest airsofters like my self....but peoples past experiences are really putting me off the idea of trading over the interenet..especially given that airsoft is one of the most expensive things i buy over xmas etc....

          please give me some reassurance! =]
          cheers,
          TK Airsoft- Take one "from" the team

          Agent 99: Inside your belt buckle, there is a pill, if taken it will cause death in 9 seconds...
          Maxell Smart: Great, but how exactly do i get them to take it?

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          • #6
            Re: Trading and you - A few pointers

            Bushmonkey-

            #1: If you send the money marked as goods and they don't send the package, you go to 'Dispute a transaction' after selecting the money receiving/sending transaction. Then you file your complaint and if they don't provide suitable evidence it has been posted, they will return your money.

            #2: Yes, any item that has a tracking number and requires signing is perfect evidence of the item being sent AND received. ALWAYS send by a service that requires a signature and is supplied with a tracking number.


            Hope that helps Merry Christmas to everyone, have a happy holiday season and be safe when using PayPal. It's the busiest time of the year and there's alot of scammers out and about.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Trading and you - A few pointers

              when you open a dispute and no action is taken place in the 20 days dispute time what happens to the money?

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              • #8
                Re: Trading and you - A few pointers

                If the dispute is not reviewed by PayPal properly and closed BY PayPal, they won't close it. They only close it once they sure it's been resolved.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Trading and you - A few pointers

                  Originally posted by BillyWu
                  If the dispute is not reviewed by PayPal properly and closed BY PayPal, they won't close it. They only close it once they sure it's been resolved.
                  Sorry BillyWu, not to say you are wrong... But Paypal is VERY hit and miss;

                  They have closed a dispute on me before even contacting the other side, simply because I was bordering getting to outside of the 45 days, and simply, (my personal opinion) Paypal doesn't care about your money as long as they're getting some of it.

                  If you actually read through their full terms, you will see that they have the power to reverse funds up to 150 days, and their excuse for not doing it was an influx in admin work. Their actual words were pretty close to: "if we can get around to it, we will, if not, then I am sorry but there is nothing we can do". WHAT AM I PAYING FOR THEN?!

                  I called and emailed paypal continuously to try and annoy them into it (as it were) with solid evidence of being scammed by a retailer, but they just didn't seem to care AT ALL...

                  Anyway, all I'm saying is, you aren't even 100% safe when using Paypal, so definitely try and use an account that is linked to a credit card, that way you are covered either way.

                  Alex (mj23lj)
                  Trader Feedback:
                  New Forum: http://forums.zeroin.co.uk/itrader.php?u=5557
                  Old Forum: http://forums.zeroin.co.uk/showthread.php?9461-mj23lj

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                  • #10
                    Re: Trading and you - A few pointers

                    Deal face to face in cash. I swear by it!!
                    Seriously though, id rather drive to buy something or meet somebody to deal face to face. Then you can check the condition there and then, and if you dont like something you can walk away. People might get a bit arsey at me for my ways, but this is probably the safest way. About 99%. Ive never had a problem buying, selling or trading using the face to face method.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Trading and you - A few pointers

                      Originally posted by BillyWu
                      If the dispute is not reviewed by PayPal properly and closed BY PayPal, they won't close it. They only close it once they sure it's been resolved.
                      This is not entierly accurate/ just to clarify... Once a dispute is opened, you have 35 days to try and contact the seller (preferably through paypal itself, not pms or similar) to try and reach an amicable agreement. At the end of these 35 days, the dispute will be closed. This is regardless of whether negociation is continuing or if a resolution has been reached. Closed, end of.

                      If you escalate it to a claim, then paypal will review the messages the two parties have sent to each other. They then ask the buyer for any additional information (at which time you can submit tracking numbers etc). After that, they do the same with the seller. If one party does not respond to paypal's questions within about a week, paypal takes it as "no comment". A descision is then reached. In this instance, the claim will not be ended unless paypal has reached a (not necesarily agreeable) resolution. If the seller does not respond to paypals request for extra information, they automatically side with the buyer. If the buyer does not reply, then this usually does not detriment their chances of getting their money back... hence the scam right pointed out in the first post.

                      They do indeed not "care". But they are fairly reasonable. If you can argue the case well enough, they wont ignore your input. Either way, their descision is final. It may be possible to take it to the small claims court afterwards, but the fact that paypal have "resolved" the issue already may not go down well.

                      Hopefully this is useful to someone, based on my own experience of the paypal dispute system. One last note; people should not be annoyed if someone opens a dispute against them. It is just a means of communicating securely, in a documented manner. Escalating to a claim without discussing it first however, is rather rude.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Trading and you - A few pointers

                        Can i just point out something about paypal. A few years ago they changed there t+c's and added a part about using paypal for the sale of guns/rifs. so IF a dispute goes the distance on paypal niether of you are actually coverd because you have violated there terms and coditions.
                        This is a big reason to also use your credit card when paying on paypal.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Trading and you - A few pointers

                          Users are reminded to take all precautions when buying/selling/swapping on this or any forum.

                          Remember Zero One do offer an escrow service for a very reasonable £32.95 which will cover both the seller and buyer.

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