the old M4 Upgrade question

[simonob]

Hi guys,

the time has come that i want a really good gun like around the 500-600 quid mark. but i have a question i currently have a G and P M4 with madbull TB and a prowin hop unit and an A reaps rubber. other than this the motor and gear box are standard G&P its only seen say 20,000 shots in its life but i would really like to get it to be a top gun. what would anyones advise be. alternatives would be to sell this and buy a TM sopmod. what are your thoughts ?

cheers
Simon

[Caldymoose]

Re: the old M4 Upgrade question

Full programmable MOSFET, ASCU V2 or a BTC Chimera, Lonex Titan A2 high torque motor and replace some of the internals. Cylinder head, Sorbo pad, Lonex Piston head and piston. Id also think about ditching the Madbull barrel and go for a non coated one instead, but other than that, what else do you want from it? And what batteries are you using?

[simonob]

Re: the old M4 Upgrade question

im currently using an ASG stock tube Duel Cell Lipo ( not sure on the stats of it ! ) basicly i used my mates guns which are very class wepons and i am lacking so so much ! i have poor triger response and also no chripness the gun sounds horrific ( i think that be the motor ! ) and im down at 310 FPS and would like to be at 345 ( wouldent we all ! )

[iBakez]

Re: the old M4 Upgrade question

FPS is not the be all and end all.....

[simonob]

Re: the old M4 Upgrade question

well of course, but when i have a good hop and a good barrel. realisticly speaking FPS = Range as in a gun fireing at 310 with the same parts ( exc motor for example ) as one shooting at 350 the one at 350 will have better range. i want to make this gun now like a really good gun is my intention.

[jonny lovegrove]

Re: the old M4 Upgrade question

no it wont, itll just get there faster, infact, there will be a shorter contact with the hop, possibly resulting in LESS range.

[Caldymoose]

Re: the old M4 Upgrade question

No, thats wrong. FPS = range when your talking about a BB fired at 50 FPS and one fired at 500 FPS. The difference in 'range' between 2 BBs fired at 310 and 350 is nil. my H&K416 is doing 330 and yet Im outranging a guys 400 FPS DMR at my site...so with the difference in FPS being so small there, the range is the same. The only thing that would change is your time to target. Your ultimate range is determined by the BB, barrel and hop unit.

I mean what voltage LiPo are you using? 7.4 or 11.1v? And what is the C rating? If its something very low (like 15) then its a poor quality battery. It wont be able to provide the power the motor is trying to pull.

What gun did your mate have then? Was it a highly tuned gearbox or a Systema?

[simonob]

Re: the old M4 Upgrade question

hmmm, i never thought of it like that, but theoritcally speaking if somthing has more force excerted on it it will go further, however with the less time in the hop it would mean you would have to turn your hop slightly up meaning it would remove some FPS. i see your point !

basically what i want to do i have a really good gun, i belive to do this i need a new motor and maybe gear box parts also. but im unsure what and if its worth it compaired to say buying a second hand Sopmod for 500 quid.

[WTP_Trust_ME]

Re: the old M4 Upgrade question

Probably just needs a good service if it;s getting noisey.

G&P are pretty good IMO. Best thing I did to mine was fit 13:1 gears, really gives good trigge response. Running on an sp100 spring gave me extacly 350 fps >.< which was a PITA when my site limit is 345!

Just need a high(er) torque motor to bring the rps up.

Other stuff I have changed include an ariseal nozzle, hop rubber, AR latch (for ease of reassembly more than anything) and tappet plate.

Sounds like it just needs some TLC, good shim and grease job.

[iBakez]

Re: the old M4 Upgrade question

what size BB's are you using? and are you using good quality such as blaster? a .23 or .25 may give you slightly less FPS but you may see a difference in range etc as it is a little less affected by wind and all that jazz.

[simonob]

Re: the old M4 Upgrade question

i really want to reply with 6mm ! but i am using .2 at that FPS reading and .25 if its windy i am using the Zero one own brand.

i think im going to sell it to get a TM 416 or a TM Sopmod

[Proto]

Re: the old M4 Upgrade question

TC is right in practice that fps = range, but that's due to higher energy imparted and the fact there's no reason NOT to use a bb that matches the energy imparted, so what happens is optimum weight/energy is met and the one with the higher energy optimised achieves better results.

Sound like getting a high torque SHS motor will work well for you, unless of course you want recoil, in which case you get a SOCOM as you can use standard batteries in it.

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TC is right in practice that fps = range, but that's due to higher energy imparted and the fact there's no reason NOT to use a bb that matches the energy imparted, so what happens is optimum weight/energy is met and the one with the higher energy optimised achieves better results.

Sound like getting a high torque SHS motor will work well for you, unless of course you want recoil, in which case you get a SOCOM as you can use standard batteries in it.

[Ells]

Re: the old M4 Upgrade question

regarding fps its a case of law of diminishing returns ceteris paribus. There's no point comparing a 380 fps ptw to a 400 fps jg, it is simple physics guyz. If I were you, I would consider thinking objectively about what you want your gun to achieve instead of throwing an arbitrary amount of money at it and problems that you may encounter on the way and precautionary measures you can take..

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no it wont, itll just get there faster, infact, there will be a shorter contact with the hop, possibly resulting in LESS range.

As far as I can work out simply the bb is contact with the hop for 1/1000ths of a second, considering the hop contact is say 3mm and a BB is travelling circa 200 mph. I cant see (or scientifically prove) that a 50fps increase is going to have any significant influence on range. Though if it did, surely the heavier round that you would use would negate any affect?

[simonob]

Re: the old M4 Upgrade question

the heavier round does decrease FPS, however it due to the weight of the bb it gets there with more punch shall we say.

[Spatch69]

Re: the old M4 Upgrade question

Change your barrel out for a Prometheus one, madbull barrels are not as good as people make out, I have actually seen decreases in fps and range with them fitted, have your gearbox serviced by someone who knows what they are doing, fit a quality hi torque motor, and as stated above, look to upgrade the cylinder head, sorbo pad and piston, ensure your air seal is as good as it can be, replace your hop rubber and air nozzle

Fps is not the be all as already stated, throwing something harder down a barrel that isn't perfect wont make it travel further/be more accurate it will actually excentuate the deficiency of the set up

I recently built a dmr at 424 fps, madbull barrrel etc we then had a play with various parts, short stroked it, lighter spring, gained better airseal and replaced the barrel with a prommy and although we lowered the fps to around 390 the trigger response increased and range increased by around 7m, PDI still claim the best barrel is around 6.07/6.08 not the mega tight barrels every one always bangs on about