Help needed on a deal - Guy wants a refund - Full story in comments with pictures

[Four Leaf]

Hey everyone,

I like to think I'm a fair trader, I've dealt with a lot of people on here, both new and veteran members and I've had some hiccups but an amicable end has always been reached. But now I'm in a bit situation here. I've posted all the buyers comments in black and mine in red. Long story short, the guy has started proceedings with his bank to get the money out of my account as he feels let down by the gun. I'm just looking for any advice anyone can offer. I am in the total wrong here ? Should I be handing his money back, or have I been fair and honest ? What can I do about the bank reversal, I've never had it happen and I'm guessing he would have had to make a claim of fraud against me ? Will they just take the money off me, as I dont even have £5 to my name right now, so how would this work ? I just need some advice on this situation and what to expect.

Thanks in advance everyone for any and all help and advice.

A few weeks ago I sold this gun : http://forums.zeroin.co.uk/showthrea...Res-Evil-logos

ICS_4.jpgICS_3.jpgICS_2 (1).jpgICS_1.jpg

The guy was all keen to have it, I took the Resi decals off as he asked and sent it via 24 hour shipping, as he asked. Then a few days go by and he messaged me saying he wants a refund because :

"Hey mate , I've received the item but taken it to my mechanic and I would like to have a refund as , crane stock is broke , both gear boxes are in need of work , bodywork is serverly scratch which didnt show on the picture also flash hider is wrong on the weapon and wiring is crap"

Naturally I was bothered as the gun worked perfectly fine when I sold it, so I replied with :

"Hey fella, have to say I'm surprised at this. The wiring is stock ICS in both guns. Can you get specifics on what needs doing to the gear box, as the CXP shoots fine, so would like to know exactly what needs doing to it. The flash hider is the standard CXP flash hider, as seen in the link below (Removed for forum rules). Could you tell me where the scratches are on the body too please. Ta."

So four days went by and nothing until today when he sent me the following pictures with the message :

"These are some of the scratches on the body , for £185 I expected it to be in mint condition , to which it's not. The crane stock which is broke ,is also in the picture as parts have broke of it"

scrath1.jpgscratch2.jpgscratch3.jpgscratch4.jpgscratch5.jpgscratch6.jpg

I saw these pictures and responded soon as I was able with the following :

"Hi Person, It looks like the knobs have come away, if you look you can see they've been glued in place, this must have happened during transit and I didn't pay to much attention to the lower as I didn't own it long before having to sell. The small plastic round piece is part of the screwing mechanism that holds the stock tube to the lower, its not a broken piece. The previous owners name carved into the stubby stock, I do apologise for that, I forgot to mention and I agree with you it's not clearly visible on the pictures in the sale post. For this I'll pick up a replacement part as soon as I am able to do so. As regards your expectation for the rifle to be in mint condition, I didn't advertise the gun as being in mint condition, I simply said 'very good'. Also please remember to gun was shipped on £24 hour delivery at your request and a cost of £21, so the actual cost of the gun and parts to you was £164. The gun, parts and motor bought knew would come to a cost of £435 by the time customs and VAT had been paid."

Person then replies back to me with the following :

"Well I'm not happy with the product , you have sold me , I have arranged with the bank to take the money out of your account , but I'm Happy to cancel this request and send you the gun back , if you refund the £185 I paid, you have clearly stated that you were in the wrong for not stating that the scratching and also the pictures were not clear , I don't want a replacement , I want te refund or will be taken this alot further !"

Upon reading this, I have replied with the following message :

"I have accepted responsibility for the butt stock having the previous owners name on it, I admit that is my fault and I admit the pictures did not show this carving on the butt stock clearly. The knobs have come loose on the butt stock, I did not know they were glued in place, as I said in the advert I didn't get round to working on this piece. You have expected a 'mint condition' gun when I never said the gun was in mint condition. Little things like saying the flash hider is wrong, when it isn't concern me.
Now, you've already made arrangements with your bank to take the money back out of my account, under a claim of fraud more than likely. Aside from the fact I don't have anywhere near enough money to cover the upcoming reversal, I don't have much of a choice but to see what happens regarding direct debits I have paid etc.
I feel I've been as courteous as possible, you originally said that the wiring was crappy, the gear box needs work, the flash hider is wrong etc. I replied as soon as I able and asked for some specifics on the gearbox issues. Its been four days and you've not mentioned the gearbox at all in the pictures, just scratches to the body and you've hit me with the fact that you are getting your bank to reverse the funds or you will be taking this a lot further, which I assume means involving the police. Its an incredibly aggressive action from where I'm sitting as it you're basically saying "My bank will take the money back, or I'll escalate it further". Doesn't leave me many options I'm afraid fella. Please go back and read carefully through the sale advert and my previous messages for clarity."

[Phatvortex]

Re: Help needed on a deal - Guy wants a refund - Full story in comments with pictures

I'm no lawyer, but you didn't deceive him at all. The engraved stock you didn't mention is unfortunate, but you offered a solution.

The bank shouldn't authorise a reversal because he voluntarily arranged the transfer, they'll only reverse a transfer if it occurred without the account holders knowledge.

In my opinion, you're safe morally and monetarily!

Sounds like the chap decided he doesn't like the gat and decided to be an arsehole rather than do the good thing and just sell it on!

[Richard_severn]

Re: Help needed on a deal - Guy wants a refund - Full story in comments with pictures

I'm no expert on this at all but can the bank reverse it without speaking to you? As surely they have to have your side of events. Hopefully as soon as you mention it is for a imitation firearm they will not want anything to do with it.
Your description seems spot on to me minus the name on the stock.
Did you make a video of it shooting? That should be proof enough that it was in working condition.
I very stupidly in the past sent someone some money for a ipod touch that I never received turned out he had stung loads of people with the same thing and was a known fraudster I gave it to the police and nothing happened about it.
I see what the buyer is doing to you as blackmail. I would print off the conversations you have had over here and also the for sale thread and take it to your local police station ask there advice or go to a citizen advice bureau and ask them.
They may not do anything but whatever you do make sure you get a crime reference number.
This is all probably terrible advice but if someone was like that with me I would do all of the above

[Four Leaf]

Re: Help needed on a deal - Guy wants a refund - Full story in comments with pictures

Cheers for the posts guys, feeling a little less guilty about all this now. I did make a video of it shooting, but like a fool I just had the camera in the chrono and didn't actually so it was the ICS in question. I is get the impression that he's just changed his mind on it, which I'd have been happy to work with him on, but right now I just want to protect myself. Thanks for the advice fellas, Richard mate, sorry to hear you got scammed mate Things like this are enough to put me off trading altogether, which is sad coz I think the second hand sales is one of the best things about Airsoft, it's a great way I find those rare guns and build the load out you want for less.


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[SecondNateUre]

Re: Help needed on a deal - Guy wants a refund - Full story in comments with pictures

Hope this works out for you. From what you've posted you don't seem to have done anything wrong other than the stock but like has already been said you've offered a solution.

Does seem like he changed his mind bias he said he will return the gun though?

As for the condition how can you expect an item like that to have no marks when it's been used.

Good luck anyway!

[W0lf]

Re: Help needed on a deal - Guy wants a refund - Full story in comments with pictures

sounds like he wants a refund and i imagine once you do you wont be getting your gun back either.

[skippyasi]

Re: Help needed on a deal - Guy wants a refund - Full story in comments with pictures

If you do refund, get the gun back first and inspect it to make sure that it hasn't been damaged by him and that you get it back.

[Olphy]

Re: Help needed on a deal - Guy wants a refund - Full story in comments with pictures

It sounds to me like he opened it up without there necessarily being a fault present, this opens up a multitude of possibilies, up to and including the so-called 'mechanic' being a charlatan and ballsing it up. Needless to say I would never take a gun back from someone who opened it up to tinker with it, it would invalidate any warranty that I would know.

He's being a bit of an obnoxious arse to boot.

[Mango]

Re: Help needed on a deal - Guy wants a refund - Full story in comments with pictures

"Well I'm not happy with the product , you have sold me , I have arranged with the bank to take the money out of your account , but I'm Happy to cancel this request and send you the gun back , if you refund the £185".


He hasn't arranged anything lol I wouldn't worry about this bank getting his money back even if its true (which seems unlikely otherwise why would he ask you for a refund?) it takes up to 30 days I think.

keep all messages he sends you.

If you do decide to refund him get the gun back first.

If it wasn't broken when you sent it, it's probably his problem. If it was a new gun and he fiddled around with it it would void warranty.

In future use PayPal as if he did try to get the money back atleast you get to tell your side of the story.

[Four Leaf]

Re: Help needed on a deal - Guy wants a refund - Full story in comments with pictures

Cheers for all the posts guys, it did cross my mind that it might be an attempt to get his money and keep the gun, but I don't like to jump to a conclusion. I didn't consider the fact that if his 'mechanic' has opened up the gearbox then the gun could have been through some bad hands and put back together wrong. He sent me another message last night which I'll update the thread with later today. Again, thanks for all the info everyone, very much appreciated.


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[Toad]

Re: Help needed on a deal - Guy wants a refund - Full story in comments with pictures

As others have said, sounds like he's received it, had a play and decided he either a. didn't like it or b. Needed money so thought that to be a easy way.
Either way. To be honest it's his problem. I've looked at the original post as if I where to buy. You can see in the photos the marking on the stock and receiver. Not clearly but a buyer would study the pictures supplied unless they where collecting in person. Hell I know I do. It's stated as a used workhorse, not in them words but clear enough and clearly had work done. Condition therfore is very good for what it is. It's not new, pristine etc. It's very good condition. Did he ask about condition etc before buying?
The stock you offered a replacement, that's great.
As others have stared. He is supposed to go to you before anyone even touches it with a screwdriver if he suspects a problem internally. Look at it this way. Your new ipod, it's not shuffling right so you pop the case and open her up, pull bits out then go to apple to claim?
Same sorta thing here.
Basically. From what's here you've not done no bad.

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[snuff]

Re: Help needed on a deal - Guy wants a refund - Full story in comments with pictures

Partial refund him for the "damaged" parts after you've agreed value,TBH that is what I'd expect as the buyer.
When he says severely scratched does he mean the "arty" name or the normal use scratches,which occur on any used gun?

[Toad]

Re: Help needed on a deal - Guy wants a refund - Full story in comments with pictures

Good point the snuff

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[seansamurai1]

Re: Help needed on a deal - Guy wants a refund - Full story in comments with pictures

With the guys attitude and the simple fact he's lying (note he went quiet when the wiring was mentioned as being completely stock), the seller has tried being amicable with the stock, anything else is frankly the buyers issue, he opened it.

Give him the option to return the item in the same condition he received it, should the seller deem it unnacceptable condition, give a partial refund for postage and a small amount for the gun.
Obviously informing him the whole way.

Screams of he's trying to pull a fast one.

[captain dog]

Re: Help needed on a deal - Guy wants a refund - Full story in comments with pictures

Don't refund anything until you get it back and inspect it. Also sounds like someone has had it in bits, in which case I wouldn't refund at all. Especially if the gearbox has been opened. Possibility of it being knackered when you get it back