Making a DMR

[ManBearGoatPig]

I am planning on converting my G&G Comabat Mahcine CM16 R8-L into a DMR style weapon. I will be using this gun in semi-auto at all times so the FPS can be increased to a maximum of 425 FPS (within GZ Woodland Upgraded AR rules). I dont want to do a complete internal rebuild because of cost, time and risk.

My budget is £300 for the internals, i would rather it stayed under £200 so that i have spare money to get a Bi-Pod and Scope.

I am fairly new to airsoft, i have been learning the internals of airsoft guns recently but i would still rather not do the work inside myself so i will be getting Zero One to be doing all the work inside the gun, that will also mean i will need to source all the parts form Zero One.

I have already been pointed in the direction of JBU for most of the parts, for the main reason they do good parts for the price you pay (Or so i have been told)

So far i have been told i need to change:
Motor -> JBU Long Shaft High Torque
Barrel -> Some form of Tight Bore barrel, either 6.04 or 6.01 at the moment
Piston -> JBU Polycarbonate piston with Metal Teeth
Piston Head -> JBU Aluminium piston head with bearing
Spring -> JBU M120 / M130 Spring


The rest is up to you to change and decide within reason. Again though, i will only be sourcing the stuff from Zero One because they will be doing all the work on the gun.

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Another question for you guys, what gun should i get to accompany a DMR as i cant use it at anything closer than 30 Meters at GZ Woodland. Should i get a PDW like a Magpul PTS PDR, a folding stock G&G M4 with a short barrel OR should i get a handgun / automatic pistol / SMG, Like a Glock, MP7, or a MP5K(Or other MP5 variants). I will need this gun to play at GZ Urban aswell so make sure it is 328 FPS Max.

[two_zero]

Re: Making a DMR

what precisely is the question??

as for sidearm. my experience with metal mp5k is that it's too big and too heavy for a sidearm. mac 11, and I recon mp7 aswell, have a very awkward shape, at least if you use long magazines. I'd go for a pistol.

[Vex]

Re: Making a DMR

What is the current fps?

[ManBearGoatPig]

Re: Making a DMR

328FPS with a stock spring

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Its just a gun that i can run alongside my DMR for engagements less than 30 Meters and it needs to double up as a gun that i can use at GZ Urban

[mafu10]

Re: Making a DMR

I don't want to shit all over your plan... You seem pretty adamant that you need a side arm that's a full on aeg so you can use it at GZ urban too. Carrying that and a beast of a DMR through woodland will be quite heavy. That might not bother you, for all I know you might be the size of Jessie Ventura. What will really get on your tits is it knocking and swinging around, snagging on things etc. You will find it hard to carry it and have quick access to it without it being a pain in the back side. Even something like my mp5k from hell which I've never used by the way, would be heavy and cumbersome.

There's a reason you don't see people running about with 2 guns much... and it isn't because they are poor!

[Boo-Sabum Ben]

Re: Making a DMR

Get yourself a decent pistol, and if you're being overrun then just let them close in on you before picking them off, and have a fall back plan. Having a fall back plan that you can retreat to, bottleneck everyone coming at you, and disappear again will work a lot better than an aeg fight in the woods

[Vex]

Re: Making a DMR

As the others have said, you'll want a side arm really, id suggest a glock that has full auto as well as semi.

And to be honest, I would just keep it how it is instead of making a DMR, your not going to give yourself much more range, and you'll be stuck with a MID.

If you kept it how it is you can use it for woodland and cqb then use a pistol in tighter spaces.

[ManBearGoatPig]

Re: Making a DMR

Ok that's interesting, thanks for the feedback on having a sidearm rather than a secondary rifle of sorts. I will get a sidearm instead then, sounds like a good plan, i would go for a Glock anyway because i like the style of them and i know they are a common and reliable handgun.

As for making a DMR i have been thinking about it, and if i just did a barrel, hop, piston and motor upgrade then i can still use it full auto and get some extra range out of the gun, right?

Correct me if i am wring with that, i am not greatly knowledgeable as to airsoft guns and internals.

All i want to do to my gun is increase the range and accuracy dramatically so i have more option, i also prefer to stay back in a fight and pick people off slowly, so would a bolt action sniper be a better idea for me. My only dislike with bolt action is cocking every time you take a shot, i just thought it would be a little be annoying and slow me down allot, am i wrong with that or is it a pain in the ass.

[Vex]

Re: Making a DMR

Barrel, hop & piston but that could end up increasing the fps and you wouldn't be able to use it. What range are you actually getting from it?

As for a bolty, again you wont be getting much more range than an aeg.

Got to remember that these are toy guys shooting plastic balls.

[ManBearGoatPig]

Re: Making a DMR

Yeh you have a point, its hard to say what range i am getting out of it, i am a bad judge of distance. I would say maybe 40 Meters add or take some, not sure

[mafu10]

Re: Making a DMR

As vex says, a bolt action won't do much for you, trouble is mate although this is a game of honesty, I've noticed not many people take hits from single shot sniper style rifles. They feel something hit them, maybe they think it's a fly or something, maybe they are just cheats and then hide and that's it.

I have had an m249 for about 5 years now, I was sat up on a hill last year with a chap with a 500 fps vsr and our range was the same. My m249 is around 340fps but for some reason the combo of a black python barrel and madbull hop rubber turned it into a range monster. But then I've tried that upgrade combo on other guns and it hasn't had the same effect. Power doesn't always equal range in airsoft, hop, barrel, ammo are key.

[ManBearGoatPig]

Re: Making a DMR

Yeh i completely agree with you there, i am planning almost definitely to get a new barrel, a JBU 6.01 Tight Bore barrel because i know that will give me a very nice performance boost, i have seen allot about Flat Hops, they seem good but are really hard to get a hold of. I have been reading up allot and talking to allot of guys that i know in airsoft and all have said the same as you, so i recon it may not be a good idea upgrading the spring so i cant use it full auto, i reckon keeping my current spring or getting a higher quality equivalent in FPS such as an M90 may be a better idea.

As for hop units / upgrades what mainly would you recommend, i have been told to replace the bead inside it if i want to and to replace the rubber aswell. Would you agree with that or should i get a new unit entirely?

My barrel choice, would you guys say that its a good choice or would a different brand or size be better?

Also what ammo do you guys use, i use Zero One standard ammo, is there any better ammo for a reasonable price?

Also is there anything else within the gun that you think i should change, like the piston and piston head, the motor, the gears, cylinders, bushings, should i add a Mosfet, Just any changes within reason fire away. I would be intreested to see what you guys have done to your guns to improve them and what effect it has had. I genuinely am interested so i can learn myself what to do, what to change, what the limits are for upgrades.

Again though, you guys have been really helpful and knowing me i would have gone and spent a lot of pointless money had you guys not redirected me.
So Thanks.

(Edit)Funny one here, just phoned up Zero One and asked what i should do and the one thing he said different to you was the range relies on FPS pretty much solely, i find what he said odd, he said that most other upgrades wont make much difference to the guns range and accuracy if the FPS hasn't been uped. Dont know whether to believe him or not.

[Caldymoose]

Re: Making a DMR

If you want range, Don't go for a tightbore. 6.03 at most, but if you want absolute range look the other way to a wide bore. Maybe not as wide as the Orga Magnus ones at 6.23, but a PDI 6.05 will give the best results at long ranges. Very tight tight bores, 6.01s and 6.00s are better for power at short ranges, but they suffer at longer ones.

As for the hop, combine a PDI 6.05, with a Prometheus Purple hop rubber and an R Hop, and you will have just about the best combination going. Couple that with precision (AKA NOT Zero Ones square BBs, so look to Blaster Devils or Madbull ammo) heavyweight ammo (0.28-0.40g) and you'll be sailing rounds past the sniper rifles and other AEGs at the sites. But, that setup isn't cheap. A PDI barrel will set you back almost £100, R Hops can be tricky to install and require a lot of fine tuning to get optimal results, and the kinda of ammo you want will not be cheap.

As for the 'Tech' advice from zero one there, well, without wishing to put it too bluntly, theres a reason that they aren't recommended by many people to send rifles to for work. FPS doesn't equal range. Raising the FPS reduces your rounds time to target, it doesn't 'add' any more range. (Note, if you compare a rifle doing 50 FPS to one doing 500 FPS then yes, all variables the same, the 500 will go further, but not by much. Changing the FPS from 350 to 400 will add almost nothing). The hop unit, rubber, barrel and ammo combination is what gives the rifle its range. Yes, FPS is still a key component of a DMR, but its not the be all and end all, and if anything, is one of the last things you look to increase.

If you want my opinion (and this is my opinion, which you may not like), don't bother with a DMR. Ive seen numerous people at my site build them, try them and then sell them a very short time later as they just didnt get what they wanted out of them. You can easily fine tune a standard, sub 350 FPS rifle to the point it will outrange a sniper rifle or DMR any day of the week. The additional work and implications of DMRs (locking to semi, higher FPS etc) In my view, don't make them worth the additional time, money and effort to get them working as you'd hope. Ive been there, I've built 2, and I ended up selling both. I went back to my 416 at the end of the day.

End of the day we're all shooting little 6mm plastic balls. Not bullets. These don't follow the ballistic rules and such bullets do. The absolute maximum range, with top spec tuning, parts and such you can get from an airsoft rifle (most likely a sniper firing at the maximum allowed velocity) is about 100m, and thats on a good day. Bit of wind, bit of dirt in the barrel, and you won't hit that. And thats just getting the round out that far, not saying your going to hit what you're aiming at out there either! A stock, out the box AEG should be able to hit 40m. With some tuning, new hop unit, rubber, barrel, R Hop etc that can be brought up to approx. 80m consistently.

So the difference there is 20m....between a rifle doing 500 FPS, and one doing 350 FPS. 20m in woodland? Just use the cover and move up. 20m isn't that far.

All those figures/numbers are plucked out of thin air, but they are all based on performance which can be easily obtained by working on rifles, so they aren't a million miles off.

[mafu10]

Re: Making a DMR

As above mate, 6.01 barrels are bad news. What caldymouse has said about the hop is to be fair getting to the extreme end of airsoft mechanics, but the results are outstanding. I'm guessing thats probably going to be a bit beyond you though. You can't go wrong with a standard Tokyo marui hop rubber, if your feeling flush firefly do excellent rubbers and nub but they are rare as rocking horse poo, both firefly and marui are drop in parts where as the R hop is a bit of a custom thing.

The aeg's I've had over the years all follow the same upgrade path... 6.03 tightbore, marui/madbull/firefly hop rubber, high torque motor and a mosfet. The motor and mosfet are purely for trigger response. And then I run my guns on 7.4v lipo batteries. I've tried gearbox upgrades such as pistons etc, I've not really been blown away by the results. Things inside the box I tend to leave well alone until they break then upgrade them.

Ammo is very very important, why spend a fortune on a gun and fire crap through it. You wouldn't buy a Ferrari and take it to kwik fit and ask for the cheapest tyres possible! Caldymouse has named some excellent ammo, but don't forget about excel, I've been using 0.25g excels for a long time.

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As above mate, 6.01 barrels are bad news. What caldymouse has said about the hop is to be fair getting to the extreme end of airsoft mechanics, but the results are outstanding. I'm guessing thats probably going to be a bit beyond you though. You can't go wrong with a standard Tokyo marui hop rubber, if your feeling flush firefly do excellent rubbers and nub but they are rare as rocking horse poo, both firefly and marui are drop in parts where as the R hop is a bit of a custom thing.

The aeg's I've had over the years all follow the same upgrade path... 6.03 tightbore, marui/madbull/firefly hop rubber, high torque motor and a mosfet. The motor and mosfet are purely for trigger response. And then I run my guns on 7.4v lipo batteries. I've tried gearbox upgrades such as pistons etc, I've not really been blown away by the results. Things inside the box I tend to leave well alone until they break then upgrade them.

Ammo is very very important, why spend a fortune on a gun and fire crap through it. You wouldn't buy a Ferrari and take it to kwik fit and ask for the cheapest tyres possible! Caldymouse has named some excellent ammo, but don't forget about excel, I've been using 0.25g excels for a long time.

[ManBearGoatPig]

Re: Making a DMR

Sure thing, i will do what you say, and seeing as you have had experience with DMR's in the past and not enjoyed them then i will follow what you say. The reason i originally wanted a DMR was just to increase my range, but if that can be done without falling into DMR territory then that would be incredibly good. To get my gun working at 80 Meters really nicely would be like a dream come true because it would fit my play style so nicely.

I will upgrade my internals so its just more accurate and has a longer range. I assume what you have said above will pretty much be ideal for just improving my current platform. So if i upgrade the barrel, hop rubber and hop nub that should be enough to dramatically boost the range and accuracy of my gun suggesting i use some good ammunition as you said.

The problem i am facing is i don't really want to do the work myself (within reason, if its simple and there are tutorials about, plus it being near enough to fool proof, then will i do it), i don't want to open up my gun and start to fiddle about with the internal works, all in fear of breaking it, so who would you recommend to do the work inside my gun. Should i go to Zero One or should i go elsewhere. Or is it just easier if i just grin and bear doing it all myself in full fear of breaking it. I can imagine replacing the hop nub to be a pain in the ass and i have seen tutorials on how to do an R-Hop and that's something i really am not willing to do myself. So as i say is Zero One good enough to do that or should i find a different airosft specialist to fit and sort it for me.

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Yeh what you have put mafu10 seems to be a bit more within my kind of skill set, i can deal with small parts so i am happy to fit a new barrel, hop rubber and probably a new nub with a little tutorial (whether that be written or video i don't know). If you guys think its best i do it myself then i guess i can learn but i would rather i had a pro do it because then i get a small warranty if anything breaks (not that it will be gun breaking if it does because i am only dealing with hop and barrel, fortunately not gearbox) and i can trust that its done properly. Name a price as to how much that kind of kit would cost be because i am happy to spend out some good money up to £200.

As for ammo, i agree, good ammo is required all the time, i am currently trying to use up my supply of Zero One rounds, they aren't what i would call complementary to my gun.

If you guys could also link some good parts that would be great and it would give me a really good idea of what i need to look for and straight up what i need to purchase

Again though, thanks so much for this help, its teaching me allot as it is and i hope to learn even more from you guys and from doing the upgrades.