Fed up of being out ranged.

[bluedust]

As the subject says I am fed up of being out ranged while using my AEG (G&P defender) just lacks the range; I have played the UCAP sandpit, where engagements are often longer range, a few times and found that I often see someone that I "should" be able to hit but instead I often fall short. I know I "should" be able to hit them because they are having no problem peppering the spot I am in as they return fire.

I understand that some skirmishers have dumped a considerable amount of money in upgrading their weapons to make it possible to push range and accuracy to the limits; however I have heard that the TM Recoil Shock line of weapons are extraordinary out of the box. My local air soft shop recommended it and since then I have heard nothing but good things about how it outranges highly upgraded rifles. Therefore I have some questions and would like some advice:


1) Is the TM Recoil Shock series really that good? Extra confirmation of what I already know would be nice

2) If I buy a TM Recoil Shock I will go for the sopmod; as much as I want to keep it completely stock I am considering doing the follow modifications:
a) modify the wiring to enable the use of lipos and avoiding having to pay £40 for proprietary batteries -> can anyone think of any reason to keep the battery as is?
b) Add a slightly more powerful spring; it comes 280 fps stock however I light to fire heavier BBs (0.25g) -> is the stock performance in terms of range and accuracy fine on .25g bbs to pass on a fps upgrade
c) after owning a magpul style stock I am tempted to get one for the this rifle; is this even possible?

3) Am I too optimistic about stock performance and should be realistic and just spend the money to get the standard work to increase range and accuracy; if so, then what is recommended? My thoughts would be new inner barrel and bucking and also the slight FPS upgrade a mentioned before.

4) I am a huge fan of PTS mags; they just work and feed without any problems. I am a bit apprehensive moving to a new set of mags, so should I hunt down the Magpul PTS Recoil shock mags that work with this gun or are the stock TM mags just fine in terms of feeding and durability.


Thanks in advanced

Cheers

b

[Boo-Sabum Ben]

Re: Fed up of being out ranged.

If it's only the lack of range that bothers you, why spend £400-£700 when you could fix the problem with £15?

[PureSilver]

Re: Fed up of being out ranged.

1) Is the TM Recoil Shock series really that good? Extra confirmation of what I already know would be nice

Yes, they are exceptionally good. I think it's uncontroversial to say that the Recoil Shocks are the most advanced and/or best AEG platforms in the world at present for most shooters.

2) If I buy a TM Recoil Shock I will go for the sopmod; as much as I want to keep it completely stock I am considering doing the follow modifications:
a) modify the wiring to enable the use of lipos and avoiding having to pay £40 for proprietary batteries -> can anyone think of any reason to keep the battery as is?

Ditch the original batteries as quickly as possible; they are cripplingly poor. There are a number of options for wiring the gun to use LiPo batteries instead; direct wiring (removing the gun's contact bar system), and soldering a pigtail to the stock's contact bars (retaining the contact bar system) being the most common choices.

b) Add a slightly more powerful spring; it comes 280 fps stock however I light to fire heavier BBs (0.25g) -> is the stock performance in terms of range and accuracy fine on .25g bbs to pass on a fps upgrade

You will want an Eagle6 mainspring, probably an M95 or M100. You should definitely be using a minimum of 0.25g BBs; with some hop-up work (detailed below) you may be better served by 0.28g or 0.30g BBs. Upgrading to M95 or M100 should not require too much in the way of strengthening of the gearbox; any higher than that, and you will need to start replacing large amounts of the gun's internal components, which are just not designed for that sort of stress.

c) after owning a magpul style stock I am tempted to get one for the this rifle; is this even possible?

Assuming you're talking about a CTR or similar, it's possible (fitting an extra-thick buttpad, hollowed out to store a tiny LiPo) but it's not easy. There are a number of other MagPul stocks which are much easier to store batteries in.

3) Am I too optimistic about stock performance and should be realistic and just spend the money to get the standard work to increase range and accuracy; if so, then what is recommended? My thoughts would be new inner barrel and bucking and also the slight FPS upgrade a mentioned before.

If you're going to upgrade the Recoil Shock, then yes - a new mainspring, a new hop-up assembly (a flat-hop would be the easiest) and potentially a new inner barrel would be a sensible suite of upgrades.

4) I am a huge fan of PTS mags; they just work and feed without any problems. I am a bit apprehensive moving to a new set of mags, so should I hunt down the Magpul PTS Recoil shock mags that work with this gun or are the stock TM mags just fine in terms of feeding and durability.

The PTS magazines are very good (and, at 120rds, much higher-capacity than the stock 82rd mid-caps) but they are long out of production, so they are very hard to find - even used - and extortionately expensive when you can find them. The stock TM magazines are exceptionally reliable and not nearly as expensive - although they're also a long way from cheap. IMO the Recoil Shock STANAGs are some of the best OEM magazines in airsoft.

As the subject says I am fed up of being out ranged while using my AEG (G&P defender) just lacks the range[.]

As has been mentioned above, for a lot less than a whole new Recoil Shock you could have your existing gun heavily upgraded. It would still be lacking all the features that make the Recoil Shock special - recoil, stop-on-empty, bolt lock/release, last-round feed - but it could still be a great performer.

[sparrowhawk]

Re: Fed up of being out ranged.

You can get the pts mags for around £27 each

[ukpred]

Re: Fed up of being out ranged.

Or you can buy my Systema and out-range them (sorry bad sales plug)

[Sitting Duck]

Re: Fed up of being out ranged.

money no option - HPA mofo R-Hop etc.......
(but some spotty 12yr old kid with a JBBG will get you now n then)

tweak ya present gun - consistent 340fps & good clean barrel & flat hop is a cheaper option

just play cqb or learn ya gun's limits & not engage in a fire fight you can't win (move closer), is even cheaper

[sierraoneone]

Re: Fed up of being out ranged.

You'd be just as well to try a pre R-Hopped barrel & a decent hop unit such as the prowin and see if that solves your issues. If you're still unsatisfied then sell it for a TM or PTW - there is no question they are nice systems.

I've been building & repairing guns for people for roughly 7 years and have done everything from Dual Sector Gear 14.8v setups to Systema PTWs.

You WILL get roughly the same range and accuracy from a £1,000 upgraded AEG, £1,000 TM Recoil setup, £1,000 HPA setup or £1,000 PTW.

People can argue all they want, it's not pixie dust, it's not TM Magic, it's not some sort of mystical tackleberry modification - It's physics.
Build a gun with minimal vibrations, high internal tolerances, good quality parts and some semblance of quality control and that's the result you will get everytime. Doesn't matter what base system you choose. It's science.

[bluedust]

Re: Fed up of being out ranged.

Thanks for all of the feedback. I have been planning on getting a new gun for other reasons additional to the range issue. It is nice to know all of my options though.

[sparrowhawk]

Re: Fed up of being out ranged.

You'd be just as well to try a pre R-Hopped barrel & a decent hop unit such as the prowin and see if that solves your issues. If you're still unsatisfied then sell it for a TM or PTW - there is no question they are nice systems.

I've been building & repairing guns for people for roughly 7 years and have done everything from Dual Sector Gear 14.8v setups to Systema PTWs.

You WILL get roughly the same range and accuracy from a £1,000 upgraded AEG, £1,000 TM Recoil setup, £1,000 HPA setup or £1,000 PTW.

People can argue all they want, it's not pixie dust, it's not TM Magic, it's not some sort of mystical tackleberry modification - It's physics.
Build a gun with minimal vibrations, high internal tolerances, good quality parts and some semblance of quality control and that's the result you will get everytime. Doesn't matter what base system you choose. It's science.

As above is spot on,notice he said good quality parts and not the most expensive, which a lot of people get confused,although he did mention £1000s. You can achieve it on a budget of a third of that,even less

[dexadrine]

Re: Fed up of being out ranged.

Prowin hop chamber and a maple leaf rubber. Cheaper than a £500 recoil shock.

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[Drewcole81]

Re: Fed up of being out ranged.

KWA ERG is what you want, cheaper than a TM recoil. IMO much nicer and range is as good if not better, simple hop rubber change will see the range even better.

Plus, don't have to only run TM mags.


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[sparrowhawk]

Re: Fed up of being out ranged.

Or get a Bolt

[Drewcole81]

Re: Fed up of being out ranged.

Or get closer 😉


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[bluedust]

Re: Fed up of being out ranged.

I have already got a prowin hop with a Prometheus bucking and nub. Something is wrong with the gun or my installation because there is no shot to shot consistency. Here are there issues:

1) sometimes more than one than bb fires
2) sometimes a round is so under powered it travels only a few metres. This happened a few times when chronoing and it measured 60fps then the following round was back up to 330
3) on one occasion the gun stopped firing bbs and was cycling blanks; I had to remove mag fire some more and reload before it fired again.
4) on one occasion a bb appeared to explode before it left the barrel; the white powder looked cool though. I considered that my inner barrel being 2.5 cm smaller than my outer barrel could be the issue but I doubt it.

I know I am probably the cause of those issues and what I really want is to get a new gun that will be mostly stock while i continue to learn about internals by experimenting on my current gun which will be my backup if I ever get it working right. If I upgrade it via an experienced tech then I won't learn anything.

By the way thanks for all of the positive contributions to this thread.

[Sitting Duck]

Re: Fed up of being out ranged.

Blimey - gun not feeding is worse than a gun with limited range
could be a number of things:

quite likely the bucking lips are protruding too far and bb's are catching/not feeding correctly
(gently tug/pull barrel forward away from hop that might just clear the hop)
most likely it will need dismantle and refit - hopefully the bucking lips haven't bent/folded over

plop a bb into hop just in front of the bucking's lips, it should sit there but with a light push of pen/screwdriver it should push through into barrel
(some harder buckings and deformed buckings may need the lips modified though I do not advise this to most people)

other options are try another bucking, soft silicone fitting it careful with a bit of silicone oil/grease
or even try the original hop unit if push comes to shove, not exactly what you want to hear
but some hops work better/worse than others and just coz a hop is prowin or madbull doesn't mean it works flawlessly for everybody

either bucking lips catching on bb loading into hop
or nozzle is not 101% clearing the feed tube when being pulled fully back
(tappet plate or spring could be worn but think it is bucking/hop related atm)

not going into detail - but trying to give you a few things to try and narrow down main issues to feeding trouble