Is this fair?

[KaRcop]

Fair enough, Robin.

I feel that it would be helpful for you to see some of our correspondence. There are 2 thread - one before I paid and one after. The following is before I paid - it's substantially shorter than the one after I paid and I feel it will help you understand how I felt as I went into my order. I'll have to check the date I actually paid because the last email is dated 14/05/2011 and I didn't receive it until 27/05/2011. Obviously, all names and places are deleted.

it's worth noting that the emails start with the oldest at the bottom. Apologies to moderators if I've missed anything in my editing.


"The NPAS in stock now..... you just check need ver.1 or 2 and order OK

Thank you



Subject: Re: SHOP------Order: XXXX
From: KARCOP
Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 12:03:24 +0100
To: SHOP

OK, thank you for that. The gun is arriving on Monday so I'll check and email you when I have it about Version 1 or Version 2.

Thanks!


KARCOP

On 13 May 2011, at 20:47, SHOP wrote:

OK we can change the the delivery by FedEx for you.

About the Version 1 & 2 the size is different, so please make sure you need Ver.1 or 2 OK

Thank you



Subject: Re: SHOP ------Order: XXXX
From: KARCOP
Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 10:55:47 +0100
To: SHOP

Hello,

The cheaper FedEx shipping would be great, please! And could you substitute a Version 2 NPAS for the out of stock Version 1 NPAS?

Thanks,

KARCOP

On 13 May 2011, at 09:46, SHOP wrote:

Address: XXXX

Tel: XXXX

Order Number: XXXX

E-mail: EMAIL

Dear KARCOP

Thank you for your E-mail to SHOP. Please follow the all order total please

Order:
RA TECH N.P.A.S Kit for WE M4 GBB(Version 1)(RAG-WE-006)--------$40(USD)
RA TECH Stinger WE M4/M16 Hop Up Kit(RAG-STD-008)-------$12(USD)
DD Bipod Grip(Black)(R5117)---------$8.50(USD)
UPS Shipping-----------$36(USD)
Total-----------$96.50(USD)

About the RA TECH N.P.A.S Kit for WE M4 GBB(Version 1) will be in stock again are you interest to per-order first?

Also the order ship by FedEx is $32(USD) and same 2-3 working day delivery is it ok for you?

Note from post office: Any Air Soft gun or parts ship by EMS or Air Mail and was loss the post office will not have any refund or credit for buyer is it ok for you?

Please choose method of order payment is by "PayPal". We will compute the order total amount with shipping to you. After, we received your order payment, we will send the order goods via "UPS" & will take 2-3 working day for the delivery.

PayPal Detail:
Please go to www.paypal.com to send the payment to our paypal account please. Our PayPal ID is: EMAIL

After post we will send the tracking number for you. OK

Thank you very much.

From: SHOP
13-5-2011

[North West Outpost]

Re: Is this fair?

In my experiances, you can never rely on anything imported into the country. Regardless of shipping method.

Now when I order something from overseas, I just forget about it untill it arrives.

There have been occasion when things have dropped through the door after two days..That's a real bonus but also very rare.

There are some shipping companies that have offices in HK and they deliver the parcel to you and do all the imoprt and customs chargers on your behalf and send a bill after the item (s) have been delivered. They are the faster services.

But if you choose HK post or EMS so the delivery over here is Royal Snail / Fail (insert your own word) then customs could keep hold of it for a week or more. Unfortunatly there is no real guarantee.

On a slightly different note, I did order a rifle from HK a couple of years ago, turned out the gun was out of stock, no ammount of Emails gave a response refund or anything. It wasn't untill I gave them a real slagging on an open forum where you can name names that I got a reply and a quick one at that. Followed by a refund. In all the years of ordering from them that was the only hic up ever, they have always been brilliant apart from that one gun.

[Caveira]

Re: Is this fair?

Looking at that, the biggest problem I see is that they're talking about shipping and don't mention despatch. At a quick glance they're the same thing, but obviously when you think about it, they despatch it in x days, then they're saying that on top of the time it takes for them to get it out, it will be shipped with a delivery time of 2-3 working days.

You need to look through their site to make sure they haven't buried a long despatch time somewhere in their T&Cs.

[philbucknall]

Re: Is this fair?

Robin is pretty spot on there! Good post. Unfortunately, I've had similar experiences without the deadline however, but still you buy from a shop 8000miles away and they can for some reason seem to get away with murder metaphorically speaking of course!

The number of times I've received orders missing certain things but not been informed only when opening the parcel to see a note saying it is OOS and will be shipped later - well, I've lost count!

IMHO I don't think the claim will get you anywhere but as Robin says If you win great extra cash; if not chalk it up to experience and shop elsewhere.

[KaRcop]

You need to look through their site to make sure they haven't buried a long despatch time somewhere in their T&Cs.

Tried that... The page is literally empty. Their shipping and their T&C pages are both blank. Does this somehow absolve them of any responsibility?

I'm a bit surprised they're making such a huge fuss out of it, but I think I will still make a paypal claim. I've been a bit surprised when they wrote things like this after I asked for a refund for shipping costs (in a polite way);

"as you said you want a Full refund???? Do you think this is Fair to our Company???"

Hmm...

[Caveira]

Re: Is this fair?

I'd personally say that the length they delayed isn't reasonable, or normal. On that basis, if it was me, I'd go for the paypal claim.

The fact that it isn't fair to them is pretty much irrelevant, they fu**ed up either by not showing the delay in the T&Cs, or by delaying more than they normally do. If they want to be fair to themselves, and do the right thing by you, the least they can do is acknowledge this and, perhaps, offer a partial refund on top of the apology.

Go for it, you've got nothing to lose!

[caffin999]

Re: Is this fair?

at the end of the day these things affect the individual way more than a company. I like the way they are trying to guilt trip you when the refund is probably nothing to them really

[BALBOSA]

Re: Is this fair?

that happened to me too man

it all rests on whats said on the website (as already stated)
but that's the be all and end all really if they say it takes anything less than 5 days to post tell them about it and start a dispute because they've taken money for a service they haven't given you.

[The Laughing Man]

Re: Is this fair?

Ha, I just read your PM, and I knew it would be that retailer. In my experience they're the only ones with such a wide range of NPAS kits, so it had to be them. All of the other suppliers don't have them, so they're the best place to go.

In my personal experience, that particular shop is okay. The owner is usually a nice guy, but one or two of his staff don't have a clue what they're doing. I went in and asked for an MP7 NPAS kit, and the boss asked his lackie to fetch it. He didn't know what it was or where it was, so I spent ages waiting, until the boss just picked it up from a box that had been next to him the entire time.

I might be able to have a friendly chat with him about it, rather than be stern, since he's always been quite understanding with me. I'll give it a go next time I'm there.

[KaRcop]

I might be able to have a friendly chat with him about it, rather than be stern, since he's always been quite understanding with me. I'll give it a go next time I'm there.

That'd be appreciated :-) I've tried being nice to them but so far nothing has come of it apart from the shop trying to victimise themselves. I can send the rest of the emails too if it helps though that'd be a lot of reading for the benefit of someone else!

[The Laughing Man]

Re: Is this fair?

I'm an avid reader. Forward them to my hotmail if you wish. [email protected]

[seansamurai1]

Re: Is this fair?

In my experiances, you can never rely on anything imported into the country. Regardless of shipping method.

Now when I order something from overseas, I just forget about it untill it arrives.

There have been occasion when things have dropped through the door after two days..That's a real bonus but also very rare.

There are some shipping companies that have offices in HK and they deliver the parcel to you and do all the imoprt and customs chargers on your behalf and send a bill after the item (s) have been delivered. They are the faster services.

But if you choose HK post or EMS so the delivery over here is Royal Snail / Fail (insert your own word) then customs could keep hold of it for a week or more. Unfortunatly there is no real guarantee.

On a slightly different note, I did order a rifle from HK a couple of years ago, turned out the gun was out of stock, no ammount of Emails gave a response refund or anything. It wasn't untill I gave them a real slagging on an open forum where you can name names that I got a reply and a quick one at that. Followed by a refund. In all the years of ordering from them that was the only hic up ever, they have always been brilliant apart from that one gun.

I think I remember that, was that not on the ASCUK(now defunct) forum?
The 2 companies I use mainly havent let me down, but I never expect anything within a fortnight, however 1 order I placed a while ago arrived 2 days before an order from the UK which was ordered the same day, go figure!

[KaRcop]

Ok so I'm just about to open a dispute on paypal (once I get the car back from the garage). Thank you for all of the helpful input and advice!

I think the most upsetting thing is that I've used them before and they were fine but they just don't seem able to accept any kind of responsibility. Irresponsible shops = bad business = upset customer, in my experience!

[wilko129]

Re: Is this fair?

i have had a problem where a shop who promised to send an item withen one to two weeks never seem to have sent my item until after about two months after this i sent them an angry email and it came within the next five days; i wont be ordering from them again and good luck with your paypal claim its not fair them ripping us off like this.