DSG rifles, what should i do?

[DMC airsoft]

hey guys, i recently looked into re-shimming one of my aegs and stumbled across the DSG mod you can preform to your airsoft rifle. My question is however, how should i go about making one that wont break down every skirmish? the plan is to buy a ca mp5 and mod the gb so that its chucking out around 35 rps.
the main questions i have are
-what exactly needs to be done? i know u can buy sets now designed for dsg rifles but havnt a clue where from, how much and what make to go for (i heard jhs is make often used)
-what motoe should i opt for? iv aeen that the systema magnum motor is rubbish for this sort of thing
-does the gun have to run on lipos?
-what is short stroking? i see this term used alot when i first started my search

i have done several searches online and watches a fair few videos but they dont exactly help me. iv done a search on here aswell with no luck atall

cheers again guys
james

[sparrowhawk]

Re: DSG rifles, what should i do?

dont mean to pi$$ on your parade but if you need to ask these sorts of questions regarding a DSG setup, then you are not ready to build a DSG setup, there are no short cuts to these sorts of high end builds,ive spent an awful lot of time "researching" what it takes, because no-one was prepared to spoon feed me information....besides you can easily build an aeg a lot cheaper than a DSG to push out 35 rps

[DMC airsoft]

Re: DSG rifles, what should i do?

well i sort realised that when no1 at my site knew what i was talkin about. honestly i have never took any of my gearboxes apart, although i was hoping to get a high rps gun up and running by april, giving me a fair bit of time to learn what needs to be learned. any advice you can give yourself to get me started?
cheers for the reply regardless

[jagillham]

Re: DSG rifles, what should i do?

You'll need to look into some bits in more detail but in simple terms....

- Correct "angle of engagement"
- Use high rated spring (M110 or above)
- "Short stroke" to bring FPS back down to site safe levels
- MOSFET system. Raptor or ASCU would be my choices if you have the cash
- Good motor. SHS High Torque / G&P M120 or such like
- 13:1 ratio gears
- Big lipo battery. Either chunky 7.4v or 11.v

[SAS Scott]

Re: DSG rifles, what should i do?

You'll need to look into some bits in more detail but in simple terms....

- Correct "angle of engagement"
- Use high rated spring (M110 or above)
- "Short stroke" to bring FPS back down to site safe levels
- MOSFET system. Raptor or ASCU would be my choices if you have the cash
- Good motor. SHS High Torque / G&P M120 or such like
- 13:1 ratio gears
- Big lipo battery. Either chunky 7.4v or 11.v

You have strangely said my set up...
Im using an ascu , shs high torque motor and 13-1 gears and im hitting 46 rps on an 11.1 according to my computer software.

[Bachelarius]

Re: DSG rifles, what should i do?

I really dislike saying this to anyone but I do agree with sparrowhawk here. A DSG is a pretty hardcore setup, which requires a really well tuned gearbox. And again, as already said, your required rate of fire is easily possible with a regular setup. I think Midas managed to get close on a 7.4V even, though I am not 100% certain on his setup was.

Either way, I will answer a few of your questions:

-what is short stroking? i see this term used alot when i first started my search
Short stroking is a process of cutting teeth off of the gears and the piston, so the piston is not pulled back as far, though is released faster. In short, it drops your fps and raises your rps. It is not quite as simple as this, but it's a method for allowing you to use heavier springs in order to allow the piston to return quicker and prevent pre-engagement, but still keep a level fps.

It is in fact this concept that the DSG is based on. A DSG can only exist through the use of this process as you can't make the teeth any smaller or they would not mesh and you cannot fit 2 lots of the standard number of teeth, nor can you enlarge the sector gear. Count the teeth on either side of your gearbox and compare it to your normal sector gear and you will see what I mean.

-what motoe should i opt for? iv aeen that the systema magnum motor is rubbish for this sort of thing
You are correct about the magnum. Same can go for all your G&Ps and other high price tag motors, they simply are not worth it. A decent Chinese motor with neodymium magnets can achieve the same or better results (so that's all your Element, Planet AE, 5ku, SHS, Dream Army and a lot of your other Chinese after-market stuff). As for other, better quality motors, take a look at Kanzen and Tienly, which run a bit cooler, quieter and a bit faster as well, but you can and will achieve fantastic results with your chinese motors and I strongly recommend that you start with that.

-does the gun have to run on lipos?
Yes and no. I suppose you can get similar results with your 10.8 and 12v nimh batts, but honestly... Why would you? 7.4v and 11.1v cells are so cheap, small and powerful, I don't see the point in using anything else for your high power purposes. With a high enough C rating/mAh combo they can provide enough power to feed the hungriest motors to their full potential and the charger is only about 25 or so pounds. Take the plunge and you won't look back, I can promise you.

I will not add any more on the DSG related questions as I do believe it would be silly to jump straight into a dsg setup, but you can look at forums.airsoftmechanics.com and take a look at RiotSC's offerings. They are the best gears out there and are unrivalled in quality. I would not be fobbed off by the modify ones either, they are overpriced and not really tough enough.

For now I'd say see what you can do with a 13:1 gearset. The SHS gears are a great place to start as they are cheap and sturdy, along with a Chinese neo-motor. Experiment with more powerful springs and the effects of short stroking. Also, get yourself a chronograph, you will need one for your work. Try a 7.4v and 11.1v lipo with a nice and high C rating, as well as capacity and see the effects. Hell, buy a load of high discharge 3.7v batteries and build your own cell if you like. I'd guess you would probably need the 11.1 more than the 7.4, as the 7.4 may not be strong enough to pull that.

You WILL need a perfect shim job.
You WILL need a pefect motor height.
You WILL need a perfect AOE job.
You WILL need a light piston assembly.
You WILL need a a way to absorb the shock (sorbo).
You WILL need to grease your gearbox.
You WILL need tough metal bushings.
You WILL need a mosfet to protect your contacs
You WILL need to dump those god-awful tamiya connectors.

For more info on upgrading, lurk about on the AirsoftMechanics forums and have a read of CrudeSkinnyB's Airsoft Tutorials, his guides really are fantastic, very rare to see a good guide site out there.

It's a lot of text, I know, but keep working at it fella, I think you have the makings of a good mechanic as you asked good, intelligent questions, but need a bit of experience under your belt first

Good luck!

[Bachelarius]

Re: DSG rifles, what should i do?

*snip* double post, please delete

[Johnny D]

Re: DSG rifles, what should i do?

the tech section in ai mgazine is upgrading an mp5 albeit a K. might be worth a look?

[DMC airsoft]

Re: DSG rifles, what should i do?

cheers for all the advice guys, didnt realise that there was so much to look at. I personally want to switch to lipos but there frowned on at my site because it basically melted a lads m60 internals. slowly switching to deans aswell. im definatly gona look into it more before i consider making one now.
1 last question, do you have use midcaps for said gun?the useage of ammo is actually the only thing putting me off haha

[SAS Scott]

Re: DSG rifles, what should i do?

cheers for all the advice guys, didnt realise that there was so much to look at. I personally want to switch to lipos but there frowned on at my site because it basically melted a lads m60 internals. slowly switching to deans aswell. im definatly gona look into it more before i consider making one now.
1 last question, do you have use midcaps for said gun?the useage of ammo is actually the only thing putting me off haha

Lipos are safe if you have fuses on all of your guns and make sure your wiring has no splits of bare wire showing..