Is it illegal for an under 18 to ATTEMPT to purchase a RIF?

[Longshot]

Re: Is it illegal for an under 18 to ATTEMPT to purchase a RIF?

PureSilver, you win at internetz!

I'm sick of explaining the laws related to airsoft to people and having to write them out every time, so I'm writing them down for future copy and pasting; this was the last bit I wanted to be sure on, so thanks for doing the legwork for me! I did find that the 1968 and 2006 Acts made it illegal for an under 18 to purchase an imitation firearm, but nothing specifically on making an attempt (though Wikipedia says so!). I imagined it might be (attempting to murder someone is still a crime after all, even if you're not successful, but wasn't sure if that concept applies to all crimes) but you've cleared that up with the 1981 Act.

Keep this up and you'll move from 'Internet Lawyer' to 'Internet Judge.'

[Fenrisianspirit]

Re: Is it illegal for an under 18 to ATTEMPT to purchase a RIF?

"But I didn't know it was illegal for me to purchase one" Becomes a favourite explanation, though ignorance of the law is not a defence haha.

[jakeas]

Re: Is it illegal for an under 18 to ATTEMPT to purchase a RIF?

But not the point I was making.
I stated "with children in mind" my main point however has been seemed to be missed.

I was thinking of greater regulation of the system, perhaps the introduction of an organisation of which can morally and correctly controll the defence system?

A long shot but would actually organise the system and take over the current "guidelines".
J

[Longshot]

Re: Is it illegal for an under 18 to ATTEMPT to purchase a RIF?

Jakeas, I'm not really getting your point.

Are you saying that there should be a better control system for the buying and selling of RIFs and that this should include allowing under 18s to buy and sell?

[jakeas]

Re: Is it illegal for an under 18 to ATTEMPT to purchase a RIF?

Nope. Not quite, the selling and buying is not related to my point, dint worry. It's a bit complex.
J

[Longshot]

Re: Is it illegal for an under 18 to ATTEMPT to purchase a RIF?

Nope. Not quite, the selling and buying is not related.
J

So... you want to elaborate on what you do mean then?

PS: I'd suggest that buying and selling are, by definition, 'related.'

[jakeas]

Re: Is it illegal for an under 18 to ATTEMPT to purchase a RIF?

The laws are fixed right? It is illegal to own, buy and produce a RIF. The UKARA defence allows to people who have it, yet it happens anyway with air pistols and airsoft guns alike.
Say you have an organisation which replaces the guidelines of the ukara defence and assesses every case and applicant individually, thanking in account previous prosecutions and notes on the applicant. This organisation would then make a judgment on their findings. Do you follow? The reason I saw buying and selling irrelevant was because I was addressing the issue of owning, but the theory above can be applied to buying and selling. Sorry my aw sets are not very elaborative, I'm short of time.
For this theory to work, the buying and selling system would have to be better regulated.
J

[Coski]

Re: Is it illegal for an under 18 to ATTEMPT to purchase a RIF?

The laws are fixed right? It is illegal to own, buy and produce a RIF. The UKARA defence allows to people who have it, yet it happens anyway with air pistols and airsoft guns alike.
Say you have an organisation which replaces the guidelines of the ukara defence and assesses every case and applicant individually, thanking in account previous prosecutions and notes on the applicant. This organisation would then make a judgment on their findings. Do you follow? The reason I saw buying and selling irrelevant was because I was addressing the issue of owning, but the theory above can be applied to buying and selling. Sorry my aw sets are not very elaborative, I'm short of time.
For this theory to work, the buying and selling system would have to be better regulated.
J

Who's going to regulate this? Who's going to pay their salaries? The government won't considering the amount of cuts they're making. In their eyes they already have a system that works fine already.

And then of course you have the issue of kids wanting to buy airsoft guns but their parents not allowing it.

[No1_sonuk]

Re: Is it illegal for an under 18 to ATTEMPT to purchase a RIF?

I think I see where Jakeas is coming from.

The government would probably rather ban airsoft than have to regulate it - it's far cheaper and less hassle.
As much as people love to malign UKARA as an organisation to protect the retailers, not players, they don't realise the knock-on effect of the retailers protecting their business is that we can still buy airsoft guns.

To be frank, the last thing we need is the imitation firearms parts of the VCRA to be revised. I have no doubt that revisions could make things worse, rather than better.

There is an interpretation of the defence that one site was using to sell RIFs (in person, not over the internet) to the non-playing parents of under-18 players who would otherwise qualify for the defence. i.e. the only thing standing in their way of buying the RIF themselves is their age.
I don't know if that's still going on, but it's VERY controversial, and has been the source of a few arguments in the past.

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The laws are fixed right? It is illegal to own, buy and produce a RIF...J

2 points:
1. Ownership has never been illegal.
2. It's "sell", not "buy".

[loki7491]

Re: Is it illegal for an under 18 to ATTEMPT to purchase a RIF?

What you seem to be suggesting is that RIFs fall under the same regulations (or same purchasing system) of real firearms.

The already states that these are considered as low powered air weapons and that the VCRA is sufficient for control. Why would you want to instigate something that further regulates this?

It is illegal for U18s to buy in any circumstance.
It is illegal to buy, import, manufacture etc without a valid defence.

What else is needed? All you are suggesting (it seems to me) is we replace the current defence system with a licence system. This will be to costly and as alluded to a few posts back, the Government would simply ban the whole thing as a cost saving exercise.

[Longshot]

Re: Is it illegal for an under 18 to ATTEMPT to purchase a RIF?

Thanks to Sonic for pointing out his last point(s) (which further highlight my whole 'very few people seem to actually understand airsoft law' niggle).

Personally, and I've said this before, I'd be actually happy if there was (OMG he's going to say it!) an 'airsoft license' which was required to buy RIFs and which was mandatory to check when selling. I'd personally be happy to pay a small annual license fee to pay for the cost of running this.

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It is illegal for U18s to buy in any circumstance.
It is illegal to buy, import, manufacture etc without a valid defence.

Sorry Loki, but as Sonic pointed out it is not illegal to buy at all (if you are over 18).

[No1_sonuk]

Re: Is it illegal for an under 18 to ATTEMPT to purchase a RIF?

It is illegal to buy, import, manufacture etc without a valid defence.

"Sell", not "buy".

[jakeas]

Re: Is it illegal for an under 18 to ATTEMPT to purchase a RIF?

Do you see what I mean longshot. I know it won't happen but I don't see why you are all against such a system. The government won't ban airsoft. Or reenactment. The cases that could be used against the banning of RIFs is too great for the government to bother.
It's a shame we have such a society today. For example in Switzerland, children under the age of 10 are given pen knives and axes to use and play with. A kid with a knife in the country (where I live) will be arrested. We live In a paranoid nation.
J

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I say play with but I mean whittling and carving.
J

[blytm]

Re: Is it illegal for an under 18 to ATTEMPT to purchase a RIF?

Do you see what I mean longshot. I know it won't happen but I don't see why you are all against such a system. The government won't ban airsoft. Or reenactment. The cases that could be used against the banning of RIFs is too great for the government to bother.
It's a shame we have such a society today. For example in Switzerland, children under the age of 10 are given pen knives and axes to use and play with. A kid with a knife in the country (where I live) will be arrested. We live In a paranoid nation.
J

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I say play with but I mean whittling and carving.
J

And the 10 year olds here prior to VCRA/UKARA would walk in to Tesco waving round a gun. Which is why the U18 rules were added.

[Longshot]

Re: Is it illegal for an under 18 to ATTEMPT to purchase a RIF?

Do you see what I mean longshot?...
J

I do, but as other people have pointed out a lot of it doesn't make sense. For a start, you said you were "addressing the issue of owning," but it's not illegal to buy a RIF if you're over 18 or to own a RIF (whether you're over 18 or not). Secondly UKARA has nothing to do with the law. Thirdly it seems to me that you're just basically saying there should be an airsoft license with a licensing commission. Now, whilst I agree that there should, who is going to run this and who is going to pay for it? And finally, a "kid with a knife" will not "be arrested" in this country unless they are breaking the law, which would mean carrying a knife that is too long, of a prohibited type and/or having it for no good reason (e.g. OFFICER: "Why have you got this 6 inch butterfly knife in your school playground?" KID: "Whittling?...").