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Buying a RIF but have no ukara number (been playing regularly though)
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Rich83
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#16
16 January, 2014, 09:18
Re: Buying a RIF but have no ukara number (been playing regularly though)
Plus one to the above two posts. I am a skirmisher, that is my defence.
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call of legend
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#17
16 January, 2014, 09:53
Re: Buying a RIF but have no ukara number (been playing regularly though)
wow I never knew proving you were a regular skirmisher was a valid defence, you learn something new everyday
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Snowdrop
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#18
16 January, 2014, 10:02
Re: Buying a RIF but have no ukara number (been playing regularly though)
Oh look, another post with someone appearing to want to get around the spirit of the rules and law.
How many times has this been done now.
Firstly, "long time lurker, first time poster" ? Yes if you call a week a long time.
Second, you started playing Oct/nov. What is it? 3 games not less than 2 months? Well if you play this month, that box is ticked.
Third, your site manager is unsure of the ukara/vcra regulations and is awaiting confirmation? Sounds a bit Mickey Mouse then. Any reputable, fully insured site should be well clued up enough to tell you straight away what the score is.
As for posts saying the law doesn't apply to overseas retailers, so when your gun gets checked by HMRC, and they ask for proof, what do you say?
Those saying they don't have a site membership (ukara) number, well they are likely well known at the site and they can be vouched for.
The OP has been playing for a couple of months (how many games?) and I would say that doesn't apply. Frankly, I think you are trying to avoid the spirit of the law and are trying to look for reasons to avoid it.
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Originally posted by
Savaged Wolf
Snowdrop - hes quiet but always there ! like a jedi
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call of legend
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#19
16 January, 2014, 10:11
Re: Buying a RIF but have no ukara number (been playing regularly though)
Originally posted by
Snowdrop
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Oh look, another post with someone appearing to want to get around the spirit of the rules and law.
How many times has this been done now.
Firstly, "long time lurker, first time poster" ? Yes if you call a week a long time.
Second, you started playing Oct/nov. What is it? 3 games not less than 2 months? Well if you play this month, that box is ticked.
Third, your site manager is unsure of the ukara/vcra regulations and is awaiting confirmation? Sounds a bit Mickey Mouse then. Any reputable, fully insured site should be well clued up enough to tell you straight away what the score is.
As for posts saying the law doesn't apply to overseas retailers, so when your gun gets checked by HMRC, and they ask for proof, what do you say?
Those saying they don't have a site membership (ukara) number, well they are likely well known at the site and they can be vouched for.
The OP has been playing for a couple of months (how many games?) and I would say that doesn't apply. Frankly, I think you are trying to avoid the spirit of the law and are trying to look for reasons to avoid it.
technically he isn't avoiding the VCRA because he has deemed himself a part of a insured skirmishing group who are also exempt and has shown proof of this claim
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Stealthkiller
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#20
16 January, 2014, 10:14
Re: Buying a RIF but have no ukara number (been playing regularly though)
What is this skirmish site called that is exempt ??
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mrpugster
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#21
16 January, 2014, 10:26
Re: Buying a RIF but have no ukara number (been playing regularly though)
Originally posted by
the_monkey
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Okay, so we established there are ways to avoid UKARA, but just because we can does that mean we should?
Ukara, in my opinon is one of many things that keeps our game going, its a pain in the arse, its possibly a form of price fixing by the big retailers etc etc, but that said. the alternatives are not pleasant
I see what you're saying Monkey but in the same vein why should we use the UKARA? In many ways it's an added complication to the whole process, and puts a certain level of control in the hands of the retailers instead of the sites/players. I'd like to see a site/players organisation setup where player information is controlled by the sites themselves.
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Snowdrop
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#22
16 January, 2014, 10:48
Re: Buying a RIF but have no ukara number (been playing regularly though)
Originally posted by
mrpugster
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I see what you're saying Monkey but in the same vein why should we use the UKARA? In many ways it's an added complication to the whole process, and puts a certain level of control in the hands of the retailers instead of the sites/players. I'd like to see a site/players organisation setup where player information is controlled by the sites themselves.
How much of a cluster would that be? At least ukara keeps it central.
- - - Updated - - -
Originally posted by
call of legend
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technically he isn't avoiding the VCRA because he has deemed himself a part of a insured skirmishing group who are also exempt and has shown proof of this claim
What??
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Originally posted by
Savaged Wolf
Snowdrop - hes quiet but always there ! like a jedi
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Sir Stephen
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#23
16 January, 2014, 10:52
Re: Buying a RIF but have no ukara number (been playing regularly though)
Originally posted by
mrpugster
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I see what you're saying Monkey but in the same vein why should we use the UKARA? In many ways it's an added complication to the whole process, and puts a certain level of control in the hands of the retailers instead of the sites/players. I'd like to see a site/players organisation setup where player information is controlled by the sites themselves.
the SWAT P.A.S.S system is exactly this, and is currently excepted by the majority of large retailers.
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call of legend
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#24
16 January, 2014, 10:58
Re: Buying a RIF but have no ukara number (been playing regularly though)
this is what I got under a list of the VCRA defences
"If you are registered with an insured skirmishing group you are also exempt and can also purchase under the new laws. Proof of exemption has to be provided."
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biscuitninja
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#25
16 January, 2014, 11:08
Re: Buying a RIF but have no ukara number (been playing regularly though)
Originally posted by
Sir Stephen
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the SWAT P.A.S.S system is exactly this, and is currently excepted by the majority of large retailers.
As are UCAP site membership numbers, easy form of proof to any quality retailer.
UKARA, at the end of the day is just a list of site membership numbers, controlled by retailers rather than sites.
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call of legend
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#26
16 January, 2014, 11:13
Re: Buying a RIF but have no ukara number (been playing regularly though)
biscuitninja is right and also it is the sellers choice to sell or not based on what ur defence is. We cant really call the shots of 'valid' defences because its the sellers choice if its valid or not that's what it boils down too afterall.
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Muzzler
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#27
16 January, 2014, 11:23
Re: Buying a RIF but have no ukara number (been playing regularly though)
Thanks again for the replies,
Maybe i should've elaborated a bit more- i know the 2 month limit and it happens to coincide with my pay day at the end of the month/next saturday off work to go skirmishing - this was a question that i put out there so i could buy a RIF from a company that would allow me too without having to wait on the one person umming and ahhing over the state of the ukara, and what is going to happen (will it continue as is, or will we need a fac/licence ?).
As a responsible adult and a parent im well aware of people flouting the laws and happily support the registration procedures, however in this case it might not be feasible. why should i be penalised if i have a valid reason to purchase a RIF?
So before you go jumping to conclusions Snowdrop, stop to think that there are actually people out there who don't want to circumvent the law and rules, but need an alternative.
As it is stands- i have emailed a website asking this question but have also stated that if i need to buy a two tone- so be it! but the all black is preferred.
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call of legend
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#28
16 January, 2014, 11:29
Re: Buying a RIF but have no ukara number (been playing regularly though)
Originally posted by
Muzzler
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Thanks again for the replies,
Maybe i should've elaborated a bit more- i know the 2 month limit and it happens to coincide with my pay day at the end of the month/next saturday off work to go skirmishing - this was a question that i put out there so i could buy a RIF from a company that would allow me too without having to wait on the one person umming and ahhing over the state of the ukara, and what is going to happen (will it continue as is, or will we need a fac/licence ?).
As a responsible adult and a parent im well aware of people flouting the laws and happily support the registration procedures, however in this case it might not be feasible. why should i be penalised if i have a valid reason to purchase a RIF?
So before you go jumping to conclusions Snowdrop, stop to think that there are actually people out there who don't want to circumvent the law and rules, but need an alternative.
As it is stands- i have emailed a website asking this question but have also stated that if i need to buy a two tone- so be it! but the all black is preferred.
I'm gonna stick up for snowdrop for a point by saying he is doing good by being so anal with the law because he wants to protect the sport like we all do and the best way to do that is to stick to the laws and restrictions and educated people.
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mrpugster
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#29
16 January, 2014, 11:38
Re: Buying a RIF but have no ukara number (been playing regularly though)
Originally posted by
Sir Stephen
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the SWAT P.A.S.S system is exactly this, and is currently excepted by the majority of large retailers.
Thanks for info. Good to see that something like this has been started, but I think for it to grow and become mainstream it needs more work, database system. Secured info, etc..
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Fizzy
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#30
16 January, 2014, 11:51
Re: Buying a RIF but have no ukara number (been playing regularly though)
Originally posted by
Snowdrop
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As for posts saying the law doesn't apply to overseas retailers, so when your gun gets checked by HMRC, and they ask for proof, what do you say?
"Here's my site membership card/call anyone from
xxxxx
site and they will validate I skirmish there."
Anything like that would be acceptable, and I still don't see how you even think overseas retailers need to abide by our laws? If you can't prove you're a regular skirmisher because you're 15 for example, then you've just wasted your cash
Originally posted by
Snowdrop
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Second, you started playing Oct/nov. What is it? 3 games not less than 2 months? Well if you play this month, that box is ticked.
That's a UKARA requirement, not a VCRA requirement. The VCRA says that you have to be a 'regular skirmisher' but then doesn't go on to define what they class as regular.
I've said it many times before, and I'm sure I'll say it again, even being registered on the UKARA database (in my eyes) doesn't make you a regular skirmisher. For example, you play your 3 games in no less than 2 months, register your site membership number on the UKARA database and buy your RIF. On the way home you break your leg. After 11 months and 25 days not playing, you decide you want to start again, and to cheer yourself up you buy a new RIF because your UKARA registration is still valid. Are you a regular skirmisher?
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16 January, 2014, 12:04
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