UKARA and trading laws?

[Krow]

Hey all.

A local outdoorsman shop in my home town of hastings gets the odd used RIF in stock from time to time and until I heard from a mate that wanted to buy an HK MP5K that we saw in there last week I always naturally assumed they were UKARA registered.

Now my buddy tells me (who isn't currently a registered ukara member) that when he enquired about buying it the woman behind the counter said he didn't need a licence as they can re classify the RIF as an Airgun.

Now I was under the impression that unless your shop is registered with a licence they are not allowed to purchase or supply RIFs to the public under any circumstances? And if this isn't the case then what is the damn point of the laws in the first place?
I don't want to be a stiff or dobby but they are also quoted as saying we only get in the gangster sort of style guns that chavy little kids want to buy.
To me this is a serious and harmful accident waiting to happen!

Just want to know what the ins and outs are before I report it to the authorities or anything like that.

[Krow]

Re: UKARA and trading laws?

Had a look on the UKARA website and its mostly gobbaldy gook to me...

Saw the part about second hand sales being legal but not anywhere does it say you don't need a skirmish membership in order to purchase one.

[cracking day]

Re: UKARA and trading laws?

UKARA has nothing to do with it, report them to trading standards and let them work the laws out and take action if needed.

[cannon_fodder]

Re: UKARA and trading laws?

This seems to be the way some shops are getting arround the RIF thing

If you call an airsoft gun a "toy" or a "replica" the seller can be prosecuted if the buyer is under 18 or doesnt have the defence.

If you call an airsoft gun an AIR RIFLE the seller can only be prosecuted if the buyer is under 18.

So this shopkeper who I am assuming already sells air weapons (an outdoor shop (fishing/hunting/shooting)) is making things simple for himself.
Hello mate, want a gun?? got a passport or driving lisence ?? cheers here's your RIF.. errrr... air rifle .

The government makes stupid laws and then people try to find work arrounds.

This is not the first shop to do this.

This wont work for all shops.. The VCRA also changed the sale of air weapons in 2007. The shop must be registered. The sale must be recorded and reported. The sale must be face to face.


PS
I've just visited a real gunsmiths and the range of .177 and .22 CO2 air pistols shocked me. Most were perfect copys of all our favorite pistols for £120-£300. And you only need to over 18 to go home with one

[Caveira]

Re: UKARA and trading laws?

They don't need to be a registered seller, there's no restriction on that.

If they are a registered firearms dealer then they can sell airguns, but to sell an airsoft gun as an airgun it needs to be shooting at a minimum of 1J (the current ACPO guideline for minimum airgun power). BUT, if the airsoft gun is capable of firing full auto, they'd be selling a gun as a section 5 firearm (no different to a real MP5!) which could end them up inside for quite a few years.

Report them to the police and trading standards as soon as possible. We need to be seen to self-police the sport/hobby and not try to brush things like this under the carpet.

[Krow]

Re: UKARA and trading laws?

what a load of shit! so as long as the troubled child gets their irresponsible parents to buy the gun theres nothing can be done... how stupid!

[Caveira]

Re: UKARA and trading laws?

what a load of shit! so as long as the troubled child gets their irresponsible parents to buy the gun theres nothing can be done... how stupid!

No. If it's full auto it cannot legally be sold as an airgun.

[Grounded_Pilot]

Re: UKARA and trading laws?

what's the spring power of the gun?

if it's over 1J it's technically "out of airsoft weapon power" according to the government- and become classified as an air rifle.

So yea- an M120 etc. spring easily makes it an air rifle due to exceeding this spring power "limit".

I have bought a rifle donky's years ago before I was into airsoft that was a 2J 6mm plastic BB rifle I used as a practice rifle for basic air rifle handling (gave up air rifles and played airsoft instead :p)

So yes- but RiF laws are riddled with loop holes. If bought face-to-face, some sellers would even consider selling if you provide a decent defense...
I saw a 16year old buy a 1911 GBB RiF and he said "I have private events on my land" ...and that's it!

What can you do...eh?
*rhetorical*

[Krow]

Re: UKARA and trading laws?

Oh right... well i'll get my buddy to do a bit of digging and go back in there to find out.
He says the gun is defo full auto so think a little visit to the local bob is in order!

[Caveira]

Re: UKARA and trading laws?

I saw a 16year old buy a 1911 GBB RiF and he said "I have private events on my land" ...and that's it!

What can you do...eh?

What can you do? If you know that they are 16, you can report both the buyer and the seller to the police.

[Grounded_Pilot]

Re: UKARA and trading laws?

I know- hence *rhetorical*

(Un?)Luckily for him, I knew him and his parents. And let's just say, he sticks to clear plastic guns now :p xD

[Panoptes]

Re: UKARA and trading laws?

if it's over 1J it's technically "out of airsoft weapon power" according to the government- and become classified as an air rifle.

Can you link to where it says this?

[Grounded_Pilot]

Re: UKARA and trading laws?

Sorry mate- told this over the counter by a professional air rifle dealer nearby.

I have seen it around somewhere- I can do some digging...

closest I can find:
http://www.practicalairsoft.co.uk/uk-law.asp

I'm not far out- it turns out in Ireland it's 1J, but this says it's 1.35Joules before airgun and then 1J is acceptable safe playing limit.

I get my wires crossed so often...
(sorry mods if this is another retailer)

[Grounded_Pilot]

Re: UKARA and trading laws?

after a bit more reading....

Airsoft model does not exceed the UK limits, as recommended by the majority of UK Airsoft Site Operators, and you do not brandish or display your Airsoft model in a "Public Place", you should have no problems regarding your Airsoft model. These limits stand at 328fps for any airsoft toy capable of semi-automatic or automatic fire, and 500fps for any single action airsoft toy.

not sure on the semi only guns however.. usually allowed up to 425 fps.. or nearby...

[Panoptes]

Re: UKARA and trading laws?

As far as I can see, there is no legally defined limit in the UK for airsoft weapons. 1J / 1.35J whatever is self-imposed by sites.

http://www.ukairsoftzone.co.uk/forum...-on-lethality/

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