Marshals siding with friends - not calling 50 / 50 kills - Opinions appreciated

[WillGreen]

Re: Marshals siding with friends - not calling 50 / 50 kills - Opinions appreciated

I've also found that it's quite often the younger ones (not all but the majority of the times) who can loose there objectivity over disagreements between players if one is a 'regular' and the other isn't . Down to immaturity/lack of acquired life skills ? Who knows .

I'm not exactly... 'Experienced' myself (as I write this, apparently old enough to forget my own age... 22/23? ), but I feel like I have to agree. I find most bias comes from Marshals around about my own age. Not to say I haven't seen some appalling examples from marshals that are 30+.

[druid799]

Re: Marshals siding with friends - not calling 50 / 50 kills - Opinions appreciated

Problem is by its very nature when you go to an Airsoft site it's going to be run by people who know each other and are probably friends with regular players , you won't see a marshaling job advertised in the jobcentre , and on the whole you'll find most marshals were regular attenders of the site beforehand ?
I also have to say over the yrs I've been to a few sites were the marshals were a little shall we say 'Gung Ho' ? and quick to over react and too quick to start screaming and shouting at players for seen or perceived indiscretions , as paying customers we are entitled to expect and receive a certain level of professionalism from the marshaling team who should be able to stand back and act impartially .
I've also found that it's quite often the younger ones (not all but the majority of the times) who can loose there objectivity over disagreements between players if one is a 'regular' and the other isn't . Down to immaturity/lack of acquired life skills ? Who knows .
'Ya pays ya money and ya takes ya chances !'

[Dan_uk86]

Re: Marshals siding with friends - not calling 50 / 50 kills - Opinions appreciated

the player in my video was basically doing the same thing the entire day with many other players on my team. whether he was actually abusing his status with the marshals being close friends is all just speculation based on what has been seen and heard. I understand it does sound pretty one sided however I am just simply sharing my experience and wanted some input. I spoke directly to the marshals at the end of the game and they knew exactly who I was talking about when I explained what happened, before the next game started the marshal came over to talk to us and was saying that the above player was feeling very frustrated with my team mate because he said it was him who did not call hits and threatened to leave the site and not return at which point he told my mate he was banned from the site. Then another marshal came over and started getting in my mates space looking to try and start a fight which was uncalled for in my opinion, it wasn't just my team who left after that but a few others too after witnessing the marshals response. End of the day if this is the kind of "sportsmanship" they want at there site then I will not take any part in it.

If you wish to go and try the site I would still highly recommend it because the games they play and the site itself is just epic. As long as you call your hits when the marshals say your hit and dont cause a fuss then the day will go very well

[emergencychimp]

Re: Marshals siding with friends - not calling 50 / 50 kills - Opinions appreciated

I'm not disagreeing with the fact he should have called it, unless he wasn't hit (which I doubt). I would have called it.

From the response they suggest he is going to have to take more 50/50s so that suggests he is going to be spoken to about it.

What I am saying is that based on all the information its coming across as unfairly harsh to slag the site off and say they are completely biased. To me it's coming across more that this guys mate has been banned, he doesn't think it's fair, some sour grapes and now he is online slagging the whole site off

I'm more interested in going to sites where they will ban players for poor behaviour, whether that's cheating or general bad attitude. It improves the game play by removing potential problems and serves as a warning as to what's expected of them, on and off the field.

[nuttytechy]

Re: Marshals siding with friends - not calling 50 / 50 kills - Opinions appreciated

It is more sportsman like for the other player to call the hit also.

It does not matter if you were the first person who fired the shot. If you get hit then call it. I've had times when I have been involved in a 1 to 1, I shot someone and within a split second he/she shot me back and instead of saying I shot you first, I would be like that was a lucky shot etc and shook hands and call my hit.

Most of the sites I go to always say that if we are unsure if he got shot or not then it's better to call the hit than end up in a dispute.

[emergencychimp]

Re: Marshals siding with friends - not calling 50 / 50 kills - Opinions appreciated

He said "no I hit you first", he didn't say that you missed him, therefore it's 50/50 regardless who shot who first and both should walk, and it's unsporting for anyone not to accept that.

Agreed, that's what he said. Agreed, that it was extremely close and I personally would have taken that as a 50/50- but to write off a whole site and slag them off when you take the devils advocate point of view is a little harsh and this thread has been very one sided.

ive heard good reports about NAA- never been myself, but it's a site I have wanted to try (8 hour round trip has so far prevented me).

[sparrowhawk]

Re: Marshals siding with friends - not calling 50 / 50 kills - Opinions appreciated

He said "no I hit you first", he didn't say that you missed him, therefore it's 50/50 regardless who shot who first and both should walk, and it's unsporting for anyone not to accept that.

[emergencychimp]

Re: Marshals siding with friends - not calling 50 / 50 kills - Opinions appreciated

Just to try and play devils advocate here.

If you run a site, you have what you believe (and are widely reputed to be ) good marshalls and good players. On a particular game day someone attends and is argumentative about 50/50s, calls other players (that you've had good experiences with in general in the past) dicks and your marshalls describe that player as sulking etc and you have seen him "being a dick". With the only evidence for justification of the behaviour being a dubious video that shows a 50/50 where one player, with previous good history, not taking a hit because he shot first and/or didn't get hit (even though you think you did). What are you going to do about it?

I know I would encourage that player to step up or ban him from the site so that negativity doesn't affect other days or the site in general.

I know from personal experiences some 50/50s are more like 80/20s or worse and it's just a player refusing to accept he was beaten in that fight, when I've had a succession of those it can get very annoying.

Maybe they have spoken to the other player to get his take on it and he completely refutes your version? In that case it's a situation of known player statement, complaints from the other team about your mate and their Marshall and head marshalls direct experience of your mates poor behaviour. It all indicates the problem is with your mate.

Why should the site apologise for the above?

[Dan_uk86]

Re: Marshals siding with friends - not calling 50 / 50 kills - Opinions appreciated

That email - not in the slightest bit apologetic or professional...

I've not been playing anywhere near as regularly as I used to for very similar reasons. Not so much the marshals, but the players at my local.

I don't drive, so it's difficult for me to get to any other local sites and I am considered (by the owner, at least) a regular to my local site and I am quite 'pally' with some of the marshals and a few players there, but I don't let that influence anything in-game.

After four years playing at my local, I've noticed a few players new to the site turn up and quickly 'buddy up' to marshals, and they have some of the most appalling sportsmanship I've seen, using their status with the 'marshals' to get away with murder. Gutted, as it really puts me off going to my local, which is my closest and most accessible site. I'd love to play more, but I can't be putting up with that every couple of weeks! I've had to sit out of games myself to 'cool off' because of some of the stuff I've seen players doing.

It's frustrating when I play as honestly as possible, in the same way as mentioned above - I'll even call a hit if it's a miss, empty mag etc, just because they've got the drop on me. A few bad grapes spoil the bunch!

NAA was by far my favorite site and the marshals have done a great job with the games and improving the site over the 3 years I played there, all up till certain players decided to take advantage of there status with the marshals. I have a number of incidents from said players in my other videos and I was considering going in more detail over what happened but in the end it would be wasteful purely because nothing I do as of now will make me go back to that site after the email shown. it really is sickening after 3 years of play and supporting the site myself and my team are treated this way. Personally after the reading the email again and again it does feel the owners just simply did not want us playing there no more because we were not "elite" enough or as skilled as what they think they were, but who knows right?

more definitely needs to be done in future to avoid situations like these as it is ruining the sport for those who play honest and have "real" sportsmanship.

[WillGreen]

Re: Marshals siding with friends - not calling 50 / 50 kills - Opinions appreciated

That email - not in the slightest bit apologetic or professional...

I've not been playing anywhere near as regularly as I used to for very similar reasons. Not so much the marshals, but the players at my local.

I don't drive, so it's difficult for me to get to any other local sites and I am considered (by the owner, at least) a regular to my local site and I am quite 'pally' with some of the marshals and a few players there, but I don't let that influence anything in-game.

After four years playing at my local, I've noticed a few players new to the site turn up and quickly 'buddy up' to marshals, and they have some of the most appalling sportsmanship I've seen, using their status with the 'marshals' to get away with murder. Gutted, as it really puts me off going to my local, which is my closest and most accessible site. I'd love to play more, but I can't be putting up with that every couple of weeks! I've had to sit out of games myself to 'cool off' because of some of the stuff I've seen players doing.

It's frustrating when I play as honestly as possible, in the same way as mentioned above - I'll even call a hit if it's a miss, empty mag etc, just because they've got the drop on me. A few bad grapes spoil the bunch!

[Dan_uk86]

Re: Marshals siding with friends - not calling 50 / 50 kills - Opinions appreciated

What site was this at? I agree that after reading that email, I won't be going.

Site is Northern Alliance Airsoft

[Kodiak]

Re: Marshals siding with friends - not calling 50 / 50 kills - Opinions appreciated

What site was this at? I agree that after reading that email, I won't be going.

[Dentonboy]

Re: Marshals siding with friends - not calling 50 / 50 kills - Opinions appreciated

That email should make any decision to return a lot easier.

[MrMcG]

Re: Marshals siding with friends - not calling 50 / 50 kills - Opinions appreciated

Reading that response just confirms what type of site it is.

Won't ever waste my money there,

You will get the odd site that's run like this I think that's just fact I stopped going to a place for similar reasons but it wasn't the marshals that were the problem it was the local regular players

Take it as experience and find a better site

[Dan_uk86]

Re: Marshals siding with friends - not calling 50 / 50 kills - Opinions appreciated

Well I have been attending the site in question for many years, I can definitely say the site and its marshals have made me a better player during my time there but after these recent events I feel sold out. Although despite these players who are friends with the marshals its the player marshals who would have driven us away sooner or later anyway. There has been so many engagements with them that they do not call hit unless you get them into a position where they know they can't get out, and also call you out as being hit but actually missing. It got to the point where if your in a fire fight with a marshal its better to just take a hit regardless of being hit instead of just arguing about it. This would always frustrate myself and my team but we always try to just better ourselves to the point that the player marshals don't get those opportunities to question who hit who first.

As for the footage above I can say I definitely did hit him, I never felt being hit but I certainly heard a hit which I'm pretty sure was my hit on him but I decided to call it purely because I wasn't 100% sure he missed or not and I would much rather just take the 50 / 50 as I like to be fair as I possibly can during the games. In the video he says "No I shot you first" which he does not deny that I hit him but I think that day he just had god mode enabled. He caused a lot of frustration with other players on my team that my team mate had to sit out for a moment to calm down which the marshals saw as him "sulking" but after more engagements with the player my team mate just pointed him out saying he does not call hits and ended up calling him a dick which he and the marshals were not happy about. I even spoke to the marshals at the end of the game and they knew exactly who I was talking about so they obviously have had complaints from other players which I also have footage of. I wasn't planning on including the email in full but it would be rather interesting to see what every one thinks.
I do not wish to give names so I shall edit them out.

Regarding the game on 24th July.
Firstly let me say that the footage you posted shows you going around a corner with your gun pointed to the ground and [The Player in video] walking towards you with his gun shouldered. We all agree that it shows [The player] seeing you first and probably getting his shot off first, although the low quality cannot show it for certain. Unless footage is of high quality it is somewhat pointless using it to settle a dispute. We have hours of HD footage showing players not taking hits, including yourself and [Team mate], which we have not published but we keep in our archives. We can slow our footage to frame by frame to show the flight of the bbs but it all gets a bit silly if we have to constantly refer to it to prove a point. When Jack started playing he was so fast and accurate that we had complaints that he was cheating. The footage proved otherwise but we couldn’t be bothered to publish it as it seemed too petty. Everyone at our site has, at some point, not taken their hits. That’s airsoft. If you intend to analyse footage from every game just to prove a point your camera will have to be top quality, you will have to be 100% sure and you will probably go mad.
We started our site to have fun playing airsoft with like minded people. We have put a lot of time and money into it and game fees go to running and improving the site. We are not a profit making business and we do it for the love of airsoft. I get very annoyed when the day is spoilt by players who think they can act like dicks. I witnessed two instances of your mate being a dick. Our marshal Paul was sick of him before the end of the first game and went in to calm down. Our other marshal Jacob received complaints from the other team all morning and when Tom went in totally pissed off I had totally had enough. I told your mate that he had quite obviously sulked when I called him out and that he had been a dick all day. I think that the effect he had on the day made my comments to him very fair, just and totally necessary. I do not like him and I do not want him at our site, which I said to his face. Would you rather I didn’t say anything to him and bitch about him on my keyboard?. Sorry but I am not two faced, I say it as it is.
It may be that [The player], like [Player Marshal] had to, will have to take more 50-50s and walk away, which will no doubt not sit well with him ( as it didn’t with [player marshal] ), but hey , that’s life. I know that he is an excellent player and sportsman and I would be very happy to play alongside or against him anytime. I have noticed a pattern over the years playing airsoft, of good players being accused of cheating and getting despondent with it. It would be very sad if that happened to our good players and we were just left with dicks to play against.
When your team left [Player marshal] asked the others if they had had a problem with [The player] and they all said not.
All this petty crap that goes with running an airsoft site makes me question why I do it because, at the end of the day, it is only a game

One thing I would like to add, The marshal approached my team mate looking to cause aggravation, I honestly thought a fight would ensue as the marshal was continuously getting in his space. marshal goes on to say my team mate has sulked for most of the day which my team mate explains he sat out to calm down before things got more tense because of the player not calling his hits. He also stated that my team mate was out of line for calling the player a dick which resulted him being banned from the site. At that point my team left and a few other players on our team followed stating after witnessing what they did they will not be returning.

That concludes my story.