Unfair negative feedback

[magslap]

Re: Unfair negative feedback

excuse me......i have read this thread,so please dont patronise me....as far as defending someone goes, i have simply decided not to take sides based entirely on your so called biased testimony.

i dont think anyone has "taken" his side,just offered basic common sense information as to what to do if you believe you think youve been mislead into a sale.
i personnally have only offered the same procedure i would take should i have felt badly done by.

[sparrowhawk]

Re: Unfair negative feedback

@ steve...cheers mate,no offence taken

@ magslap...well im not comfortable with certain name calling being banded about, like "scamming pieces of sh*t" or con (artist) and for naming and shaming being asked.
there is a lot of difference between someone who deliberately goes out of their way to con people(we have experienced these persons on this forum before),
and someone who has been very niave and inexperienced in buying and selling.....

personally i believe newcomers shouldnt be allowed to sell rifs/ifs until they have submitted enough posts of quality,or X amount of feedback from selling parts n accessories and they should use the escrow service until they have reached that level

[Gaffa]

Re: Unfair negative feedback

Really hope things get sorted out; it's a shame things get to this stage... at the time of year when we're supposed to be happy about gifting presents to others.

Tut, tut.

You'd like to know what can be done in the future? So do I really... Please let us know alternatives!

Here's a few possibilites that I'm sure are running through (some) people's minds...

1) Ban the scammer

This leads to nothing - the scammer simply creates another account and continues his sketchy business. Ban the IP address? Again, not fool proof and can be worked around.

2) Add more moderators to assist in sales sections

How far does the "assisting" go? We - ie, human beings, can't really ask for others peoples details as that breaches Data Protection. Furthermore, sellers are not obliged to offer refunds for second hand/ pre-owned items when things do cock up, as stated in the Distant Selling Regulations.
So we can't do anything because the law prevents us, and bad sellers don't have to offer a refund... This is going well.

3) Name and shame

This affects someone's reputation, regardless of whether they've/ they're naughty or not. What does it solve anyway? Sure, other people will know to avoid X user, but surely this person can just create another account? And as stated by Panoptes and quoted by Fizzy, the forum owners are responsible for things that are said on here - don't know if they'd like the idea of naming and shaming.

- - - - - - - - - -

I'm afraid, we're on our own when it comes to these sort of things. I was a moderator when I was going through issues with somebody I bank transferred money to, in the end I found his details, sent him a final warning letter (after 4 months of waiting) which threatened small claims court action and shortly after, I received a PM (from the seller's partner) saying that it'll be posted, etc. In fact, that reminds me, I need to do that for someone who hasn't paid me for the work I did on their gun... Hmph.

Rule of thumb:

Paid via Paypal (goods, etc)

Start a paypal dispute. Remember, you only have 45 days after you sent the money to do this, otherwise the process is a lot harder. Its no big deal to have a dispute opened while waiting for the items, as it can be easily closed with no affect on a persons account.
Once you have opened a dispute, I believe the seller (or whoever is being disputed) has 20 days to reply. After 20 days, this can be escalated to a Paypal claim.

Paid via Paypal gifting the money

Stuck really. Its a difficult one, but here are some ones that you can try, not guaranteed to work, however:
Contact Paypal and explain the situation. However, remember that a gift is just that, why would you want the money returned to you?
Contact your Bank to which your account details were linked to (this assumes that money came from Bank balance as opposed to paypal balance). Your bank may be able to freeze the transaction, reverse it, or flag it for inspection, but remember that any of these are only likely to happen at the best of times.

Paid via bank transfer

Same as above for gift really. However, depending on your bank, there may be other anti-fraud protection methods in operation.

Paid via "Money in the Mail"

This is probably the worst way to send money, yet admittedly I have done it on one occasion. Although you may have proof of postage, tracking, a record number, etc, what does it prove? That a package was sent, not that money was sent.
The person acting fraudulently can simply deny that they received the money even if there was signature proof of receiving it in the mail - its his word against mine scenario. Although there may be other things that can be done, for example contacting the police as it technically results in theft - dishonestly appropriating property, in the form of money, belonging to another, with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it. (TA 1968)

Contacting the police should be a last resort measure, as these are generally civil issues. However, when someone sells something differently to as described, etc, then that is fraudulent and criminal. Remember that in fraud, there must be a gain or loss. That simply means, that if someone gains (gets £200 for a perfect gun rather than £150 for what is being sold, a half working gun), or someone looses (doesn't have to be a financial loss), its fraud.

Hope this helps someone, somewhere, and if there's any information that isn't right, please go ahead and correct me!

[Steveuknotts]

Re: Unfair negative feedback

Thanks Gaffa

And I agree with all you say.

I guess it's just annoying how the system always seems be more for helping the guilty than protecting the innocent!

I know points 1&2 can be worked around but maybe it a start???

Also maybe legal proof of a person should be provided when opening an account on the forum! This may help if points 1&2 are breached??

I know what your saying regarding DPA but you CAN legally request (Merely by adding to your Terms & Conditions) proof if someone wishes to join as it is at that point, their choice if they wish to provide proof who they are or not. After all if they're genuine this shouldn't be an issue!

Kind regards & Merry Christmas :-)

[Gaffa]

Re: Unfair negative feedback

Thanks for clearing that up, always been unsure about DPA.

And I thought that "having the police monitor these forums" (after that idiot Dan who scammed everyone and then came on here to tell the story about how he won) would be good enough threat for people not to scam.

Uh-oh one more post and its page 3.

[Steveuknotts]

Re: Unfair negative feedback

No worries Gaffa.

At the end of the day anyone wishing to join anything can do so but only if they agree and accept the Terms & Conditions.

If this includes providing proof of who you are it then becomes a choice.

The only thing you can't do is divulge that persons information without their consent. However if the terms & conditions state that, moderators only, can use this information, if required by lack of cooperation or contact from this person, as a means of resolving a dispute, then under the terms this then is not classed as a breach of DPA.

[Caveira]

Re: Unfair negative feedback

Gaffa, just for information, the distance selling regs only apply to businesses.

[sam_D]

Re: Unfair negative feedback

mod's could you please close the thread

as iv'e reach'd where i need to get and do not want a thread for me open unless this is a thread you would like to keep open for more idea's thanks

[sam_D]

Re: Unfair negative feedback

and thanks every one for the feedback