Skills needed for a Milsim team

[cyberi4n]

Re: Skills needed for a Milsim team

Went to the last TA events pheonix rising 2 at senny few months back weather conditions were terrable so many ppl gave up on the sat night and went home, u couldnt see two feet infront of u because of the fog that came down at dusk....

Was a bloody good weekend though dontcha think? I stayed the whole weekend as was marshalling for some of it, but had a thoroughly enjoyable time :D

[Lt. Macka]

Re: Skills needed for a Milsim team

what age are you specialist? if you dont mind my asking?


am i right in thinking you have had some kind of military training?


i love the enthusiasm bud - but what you have to remember is that this is airsoft and airsoft is still a game - regardless of whether its milsim or not.

though i must conceed that average joe airsofter is shite when it comes to even basic military skills and drills.

cqb/fibua would be good

setting up webbing etc would be useful - but if you're not doing a specific look then it would surely be down to each man and his preferances?


wouldnt bother with a bergan myself - you should be able to get everything you'd need for 24 hours in a daysack (assuming you use brit kit?)

squad formation etc would be kinda useful.


with regards to weapons - i think it would simply boil down to practice with the guns in question - practice practice practice -
airsoft will perform very different to realsteel (as we all know) but regardless of that - if you know what you and your gun can do, you will be much better with it.

mac

[specialist]

Re: Skills needed for a Milsim team

i love the enthusiasm bud - but what you have to remember is that this is airsoft and airsoft is still a game - regardless of whether its milsim or not.

though i must conceed that average joe airsofter is shite when it comes to even basic military skills and drills.

cqb/fibua would be good

Of course it's game and always will be. But as I've mentioned before on this thread, when you play a game of say footie or rugby you buy the kit, you try to emulate by training and then play your organised match according to the rules and tactics of the pros. I'm just saying that any airsofter can move towards Milsim style or stay with day skirmishing.

setting up webbing etc would be useful - but if you're not doing a specific look then it would surely be down to each man and his preferances?

Well there is (some) best practice in the British Army around this - belt order. Stuff like ammo here, map there, water there, medic pack here etc. Again, it's only relevant on 24 hour milsim events in a team setting but most important- it's not that important anyway but its interesting that the British Army tends to do it in a particular way and its not a bad idea to emulate their experience.

wouldnt bother with a bergan myself - you should be able to get everything you'd need for 24 hours in a daysack (assuming you use brit kit?)

Well that depends on time of year. In winter you need a tent, sleeping bag rated to 0 degree C or below- so it's going to be alot bigger than you lightweight bivi in summer. You'll need a sleeping matt, brew kit, rations ammo etc. Try sleeping rough in wales with its own weather system. When you're off stag duty you do need to get into a warm maggot sheltered from the horizontal rain. A daypack in winter would need to be a pretty large one!

with regards to weapons - i think it would simply boil down to practice with the guns in question - practice practice practice -
airsoft will perform very different to realsteel (as we all know) but regardless of that - if you know what you and your gun can do, you will be much better with it.

mac

How you hold your weapon whilst patrolling, how you use it to shoot (e.g. shooting positions that minimise your profile), muzzle control etc is the same in airsoft as it iis for real steel- many other things are not. However, weapon safety rules for real steel are identical for airsoft. Drills alter for changes between woodland and CQB. So there are some bad and good habits and then drills to practice. learn in one day and practice over a few weeks when doing all the other stuff.

It does not take long to aquire a good and consistent set of drills so a squad begins to look more consistent. Not essential for day skirmishing but to work as a unit on Milsim role play scenarios up against well drilled teams tends to encourage you to up yiour game.

Airsoft is a game but I think like any game, some of us want emulate more closely the drills, techniques and tactics adopted by the professionals just as we all do with all other sports.

Its not for some though. I was at a CRW training day a few weeks ago and one guy could not take the waiting and cold whilst recce and OP teams were counting terrorists, weapons, locations etc in the target building. He just wanted to empty his mag at someone- understandable I believe he left a but early but 99% stayed and had a great day.

[cyberi4n]

Re: Skills needed for a Milsim team

Airsoft is a game but I think like any game, some of us want emulate more closely the drills, techniques and tactics adopted by the professionals just as we all do with all other sports.

Agree totally with this, couldn't have put it better myself. I think the issue I face is how far should it be taken, and also getting others to join in to a regular team with me....

[specialist]

Re: Skills needed for a Milsim team

i do like the entusiasm specialist has but anyone who has ever tried to organise an airsoft team would understand the difficulty in acheiving what he is suggesting.

I agree. It's difficult to get a bunch of like minded guys together who train at least once a month and are able to go to a weekend combat missiion once a month.

You really need a team of 4 minimum to work on a combat mission - ideally 8 so that you operate as single fighting patrol and can split into two fire-teams when appropriate.

On a weekend combat mission, with 4 you are probaly limited to a recce patrol if patrolling on your own and then call in a QRF (quick reaction Force) normall consisting of at least 8 other guys.

I'm thinking that if there were about 16+ guys/gals half of whom who train at least once a month and are able to attend a Combat Mission at least once every two months, then there's a reasonable chance of getting a team of at least 4 turn up to work with other teams on the chosen side. The 16 plus plus people could be anywhere and operate under a team charter as a vitual team via an online team forum.

MY idea of team management to definitly have TL and 2 i/c and individual roles (SAW gunnewr, DM, refileman etc) when on a combat mission and training but rotate TL and 2 i/c throughout the day so that everyone gets to be operate as TL and 2 i/c.

However there should be, on a rotating 3 monthly basis, a designated organiser/ facilitator for events, training, logistics. The person would act as primary point of contact for event organisers/ sites when organising any team training or events.

[Darkchild]

Re: Skills needed for a Milsim team

Specialist: if you could get a group of people together that are willing to follow orders and learn to work as a team properly, im willing to help out.

I've been talking about training days and such for ages now but nobody around seems to care enough. Everyone seems to be content running around as an incoherent rabble, which is fine, but i would like to be part of a team with a solid knowledge of basic tactics.
I have a firm rule about airsoft and that is that i never tell people what to do because they are civilians and i have no right to order them about. But i'd love to be in a team with a solid command structure.

For a decent milsim team i believe you need 2 things to start.

1:A willingness to work as a team, understanding that you wont always be in the thick of it, sometimes you will be guarding the rear or simply watching a flank while other people fight. This also involves things such as following orders, even if you dont necessarily think its the best course of action.

2:Comms. I dont mean radios, i mean people talking to each other. Not random useless crap like "He's over there!" (the amount of times ive heard this phrase in uncountable) but i mean target indications, quick SITREPS to your commander without being asked, even simple things like acknowledging that you've heard what somebody has said to you instead of just remaining quiet.

I believe with these 2 factors, a team will begin to see results, without even having any real tactical knowledge. The rest can be built upon later.

Darkchild

[specialist]

Re: Skills needed for a Milsim team

Specialist: if you could get a group of people together that are willing to follow orders and learn to work as a team properly, im willing to help out.

I've been talking about training days and such for ages now but nobody around seems to care enough. Everyone seems to be content running around as an incoherent rabble, which is fine, but i would like to be part of a team with a solid knowledge of basic tactics.
I have a firm rule about airsoft and that is that i never tell people what to do because they are civilians and i have no right to order them about. But i'd love to be in a team with a solid command structure.

For a decent milsim team i believe you need 2 things to start.

1:A willingness to work as a team, understanding that you wont always be in the thick of it, sometimes you will be guarding the rear or simply watching a flank while other people fight. This also involves things such as following orders, even if you dont necessarily think its the best course of action.

2:Comms. I dont mean radios, i mean people talking to each other. Not random useless crap like "He's over there!" (the amount of times ive heard this phrase in uncountable) but i mean target indications, quick SITREPS to your commander without being asked, even simple things like acknowledging that you've heard what somebody has said to you instead of just remaining quiet.

I believe with these 2 factors, a team will begin to see results, without even having any real tactical knowledge. The rest can be built upon later.

Darkchild

I think the above two things are a strong or key element of a team charter!

[ratty1968]

Re: Skills needed for a Milsim team

Specialist, with the list of MILSIM's you've mentioned we must have run into each other at some point. Attend a lot of Stirling games, and Phoenix rising 1 (led the Azerbaijan Task force) and PR2, where an ankle injury meant i had to sit out most of the event in the church.
I play both types of game, and to be honest, prefer the milsim type games. I've had some of my best firefights, best encounters and best pre and post game chats, both with players, traders and event organisers. Don't get me wrong, i have met a lot of good airsofters at walk on days, many who now MILSIM, but theres something about milsimmers that i seem to associate with more than the average skirmisher.
Theres a lot to be said about 24 hour games, and i do agree that NV is a great tool fofr night games. I also love the use of vehicles in milsim, and am hoping to be at Op Kuggerand, Stirlings game that has 3 helicopters this year.
Also, Specialist, not sure if you knew, Stirling have access to Copehill Down FIBUA Village this year, in August. Gonna be a fantastic game.
Ratty

[specialist]

Re: Skills needed for a Milsim team

I'll be at Copehill down.. I'm also thinking about the Stirling match in Spain later this month.

I've been to most Stirling games in last two years. I'm the one with DPM and usually SCAR or Canadian C8 rifle. At Night Ive got a serious looking Rifle NV scope. I'm also the one that moans alot about stag duty

Were you at Op Matilda last year? Operation Bartos with the Helis? A Team pic pops up on the Stirling Web site - I'm in the middle of the pic with a black T-shirt and Scar rifle.

[LondonLad]

Re: Skills needed for a Milsim team

@specialist

I personally like the idea (probably because I've had prior experience), and I'd like to think that once I feel more comfortable with Airsofting (as I'm still fairly green) that I'll dabble in MILSIM one day(although as I'm no driver I'll find it difficult to venture out further afield, and also persauding the missus that I'm going away for an Airsoft w/end event and not playing the field :D)

I think you'll find acceptance & agreement to your thoughts/idea's easier from folks who are either current or ex-forces people (that's not to say you won't from those that don't have prior experience but I do believe the majority are used to playing the same style most do on a computer 'run and gun - rambo').

Enough of my rambling, I'm too tired and probably incoherant :D

[Lt. Macka]

Re: Skills needed for a Milsim team

i must say the idea appeals to me - but sadly im based too far away for me to concievably get to stirling airsoft.

i agree with londonlad that a milsin team would appeal to people with military experience.

specialist - assuming you dont get ex/ serving army personel - who is going to teach average joe airsofter all this stuff?

mac

[specialist]

Re: Skills needed for a Milsim team

i must say the idea appeals to me - but sadly im based too far away for me to concievably get to stirling airsoft.

i agree with londonlad that a milsin team would appeal to people with military experience.

specialist - assuming you dont get ex/ serving army personel - who is going to teach average joe airsofter all this stuff?

mac

Well some of is pretty much about passing on what I learnt and practiced over the last few years. I can do comms, navigation and basic stuff like patrolling, obstacle crossing, contact drills etc for small units. It's not rocket science but needs to be practiced until it becomes second nature within a team context. Having someone with forces experience being part of the team would be tremendous through!

I think that any group llikely to get together will know and be experienced in a lot of the areas. I have a lot (loads) of real-steal training material like white boards, magentic troop markers etc that can help. Access to our collective experience, access to Stirling training and access to Milsim type events can all be put together to build up skills and have some serious fun!

Also, a train the trainer approach will help us pick-up skills and drills and pass them on. This reinforces the trainer's learning whilst passing it on. Attending combat missions and putting stuff into practice builds on the learning. The trainers then get better and so on it goes. I've got a few training scenarios that could utilise certain skills progressively whilst presenting the opportunity drop a few opfor

Most of the stuff I listed at the beginning of this topic is taught by Stirling Airsoft (among others) who have been trained by ex-army/SF and currently use recent ex-army people. They have adopted the train-the-trainer approach and it works for them.

Milsim seems to be getting more popular and soon there'll be some serious team competitions- those who win will be the ones who emulate and adapt real army tactics. Stirling prove it at every combat mission.