Is there that much difference between spring manufacturers?

[Genesius]

Im looking around for springs for my ICS, it shoots 375 at the moment on the standard spring because i have a really good air seal.

What i want to know is, is there any difference?

German piano wire is German piano wire, the materials all seem to be the same, so why is say a JG spring £5 but a madbull £15? Is it just the name?

Im looking at buying a variety of springs so i can use my ICS as a DMR and for normal and CQB use.

I know that some manufacturers use different equipment to test the joule rating and that some manufacturers will have different tollerances, eg, a 9.5j spring by some manufacturers would pass the QC and be sold as a M100 as would a 105j spring.

Im not sure that the last bit really matters as long as the spring is nearer the value stated than the lower available value.


So who gets it right? Who gets it wrong? Do you care, or is this not a consideration is should be thinking about?

[badger906]

Re: I sthere that much difference between spring manufacturers?

if yours shoot that high with a standard spring, id put in a m90 with a copper collette behind it. Cheap chines springs aren't consistent, one maybe miles out from the next. in the words of a Scottish based store "The example tested was shooting at 375 fps with 0.2g BBs, so check you site limits! We do not guarantee that all of them will shoot at this velocity as spring consistency is almost non-existent in China. Yours may shoot bricks out of the side of your house or it may tickle the lovespuds of your resident tree squirrel, who knows? "

i always go for guarder

[Genesius]

Re: I sthere that much difference between spring manufacturers?

lol, i may get a guarder but im unsure what rating to get so i wanted to get a few to try out. JG do a cheap 3 pack so i may get those to test with and when im happy with which one to buy m110, m120 or m130 then i will buy a guarder one.

yeah my ICS is a boss.

375 fps
and ive managed to sort my rof issue buy re tuning the mosfet
i can turn down the fps by removing spring spacers.

its a pain sometimes as it occationally miss feeds but other than that i love it, so easy to work on.

the reason im asking is i just bought a second upper gearbox and want to get it all sorted for a dmr setup.

[The General]

Re: Is there that much difference between spring manufacturers?

The springs are made from steel. Saying they ought to be identical is as valid as saying all steels are identical and that is not true. There are many reasons why this is the case, temper, materials, hardness an so on.

Chinese steel is often poor quality and badly tempered, hence Chinese springs like Element often lose their power over time. Though I must say I have not had that problem with SHS springs.

I have found Guarder springs and PDI to be excellent springs and hold their power levels brilliantly. Though the Guarder SP ratings can be a bit deceiving. Guarder springs generally run from a little high, to a full rating higher than listed.

[North West Outpost]

Re: Is there that much difference between spring manufacturers?

Systema springs seem to break often, never use them.

Some are rated using a 0.25 bb rather than 0.2.

I have regularly used... SHS, Ultimate and Guarder. With one more Chinese make I cant remember...lol.

[ElZer0]

Re: Is there that much difference between spring manufacturers?

Ive always put gaurder SP90 springs in my guns to get them to 330 FPS

[centaur]

Re: Is there that much difference between spring manufacturers?

PDI and Guarder..........our trusted springs

[original poster]

Re: Is there that much difference between spring manufacturers?

I run a Guarder spring in one gun and a Systema spring in the other, both have done as they should with no problems.

[BioSniper]

Re: Is there that much difference between spring manufacturers?

Guarder for me also.
I oddly find they are easier to compress on gearbox closure and almost always convert the rating to M/s perfectly. I've used SHS and while consistent don't seem to compress as well for some reason.

[brooxy]

Re: Is there that much difference between spring manufacturers?

I've generally found in the past that Systema springs are quite accurate as long as your airseals are good (a 1 joule spring gave me between 328 and 329). Downside is that Systema springs are a lot longer than most other makes and thus the gearbox closure is always a pain. There have been reports in the past of them snapping during use, but I've never had this issue personally.

I've since moved to Guarder springs - no issues found with them at all.

[Genesius]

Re: Is there that much difference between spring manufacturers?

I understand that steels have different chemical structures depending on how they are made but mose manufactures say that their springs are constructed of German piano wire which must meet a certain grade.

Regardless of that, can they really drop off that much?

I understand stress and fracture but has anyone actually had a spring that was fine and then over time it lost a noticeable amount of power? If so, how long,mare ou sure it wasnt poor piston/cylinder head/ hop up seal?

The problem is that it's hard to work out what an issues underlying causes are and although certain manufacturers have a large following I sometimes wonder if it's 'actual performance' or 'because I've heard the makes good' that matters.

When I got my gun off of here it's shot pretty good groups and was 360 to 375fps.
Hop up renewed
Gaurder cylinder head
Madbull tb barrel

Guess what, no difference. Still the safe fps and still the same grouping.

I did have an element piston and gaurder piston head but as ou may have seen in a previous thread they decided to smash each other to crap. So I'm even using the original ics piston and head.

Just wondering if there is any actual evidence.

Please take this post as me being genuinely interested and not as me saying you are all wrong, lol, I'm just trying to learn.

I will still probably end up buying gaurder and have gaurder stuff in my 226 and various other bits, just wondering if there is actually difference or is it just a case of ones a VW and ones a VW with a Skoda badge?

[richardy]

Re: Is there that much difference between spring manufacturers?

when making springs material is pretty much unimportant, its what evers available at a decent price at the time. The key with spring production is heat treatment and consistency which costs time more than anything which in turn costs money.

Heat treatment is basically about 30 min labour per treatment min, so the more treatments the more settled the spring. ie closer to its final resting value.

Consistency is tested by a rating test every 10 springs, or every 50 or 100 or 1000 what every you fancy paying for...

As example the maclaren f1 valve springs are heat treated 100 times... at a cost of nearly 100 pound wholesale each. So it makes me chuckle a little when airsofters expect there airsoft spring to be anymore than what it is.

So ignoring material, theoretically what your paying for in a more expensive product is consistency between products ie you get what your asking for most of the time. I know when installing springs id be miffed if it was well over or under what i hoped and i spend ages trying to fault find an aeg becuase "its a new spring it cant be that". And that it maintains that value for as long as possible. Leaving your spring compressed for extended periods may change this value depending on how far away it was to start with, the more heat treatments the less of a change.

Truth be told when it comes to springs retail prices arnt always the best things to look for.. some companys are quite simply more expensive to import and stock. Therefore they sell at a higher price.. others are more readierly available and thus cheaper.

ideally look for words like heat treated in the title at least it has at least one treatment even if you cant tell how many. Or better yet if you have had good results stick with that brand until you dont.

Most of the time price and availibility prevails though...

[Genesius]

Re: Is there that much difference between spring manufacturers?

ok fair enough.

Ill stick with the recomendations then.

[jagillham]

Re: Is there that much difference between spring manufacturers?

Guarder gets my vote, SP90 normally get about 330 fps area. Not had any issues with mine, and that is over a few years. Whereas I broke a couple of Systema and Element ones in quick succession prior to that.