When is enough, enough?

[Trust]

Alternate title: How I learned to stop worrying and love the RoF.

So I got to thinking, there's something taking over airsoft, and in my opinion, it can only be to the detriment of the sport as a whole.

What I'm talking about is the advent of LiPo assisted RoF. Now don't get me wrong, this is nothing to do with LiPo's themselves. Advances in power options can only be good for the sport, but when twinned with a high speed setup, an 11.1v can fire fast enough that you can't hear the individual rounds being fired.

A couple of years back, when I'd just started playing, I was in the fort at GZ, sweeping the top floor. (For those of you who haven't been there, the fort and surrounding area are single shot.) I shot at an enemy, who fell sideways and fired back an auto burst up my throat and face. At least 6 rounds from adams apple to forehead. It was entirely unintentional, as I'd startled him into falling and knocking his fire select, but if he'd have been running some of the LiPo setups I've seen, at 350 at that range, I could have been very seriously hurt.

Now some of you will say about face masks and that if you don't want to get shot don't play etc., but that's not my point. If a new player startles someone with one of these setups, and they instinctually return fire from about 6ft, they're gonna get 30 rounds in a tight grouping at 350. That's going to split skin in certain areas on the body (shin, cheek, anywhere where the skin is tight to bone.).

Am I just worrying over nothing, or is technological advancement going unchecked going to ruin our sport? Some (NOT ALL, SOME) people who upgrade their guns to high degrees also have a tendency to maybe get a little fuzzy on FPS limits, because they're the kind of people who have to have a higher RoF, better range, tighter grouping and better kit than everyone else. So what about the same situation with a gun nearer 400fps? Should sites institute a RoF limit too? Or minimum engagement distance for high RoF guns?

[Caveira]

Re: When is enough, enough?

ROF limit sounds good to me.

2 rounds hitting basically the same spot within a split second of each other will do more damage than just 1 at a higher velocity. And, before you start to argue about this, I just checked this with my wife and her years at medical school should trump any "theories" that were thrown around last time this came up.

[Ricochet]

Re: When is enough, enough?

Yeah i totally agree with the ROF limit, even when you say single shot inside buildings people including myself will still aim for a double tap minimum to make sure the job is done unless you've got someone done to rights. But if you get someone whose not so accurate and decides to put as many rounds down a corridor as possible your still going to achieve a full auto rof therefore negating the rules of engagement.

I think if this goes unchecked we're going to see a lot more injuries, and a lot less teeth on airsoft players

[Prev]

Re: When is enough, enough?

Good points made. Problem is you could never police RoF like you can FPS. But getting 5 bb's in the same area from a gun with a high RoF to say a single BB from a hot gun in my eyes will prob cause the same if not more damage.

Now for me RoF means nothing, as I prefer the one well place shot, to the rinsing of someone. But like you say some people do enjoy having high RoF and in some cases it is because they want to be better than everyone else. Im not saying people who install li-po's are all doing it for that reason. Im looking in to it currently because it gets rid of the need for bulky stocks on rifles.

Its a good idea to stop people having accidents limiting RoF. But very hard to police.

[Caveira]

Re: When is enough, enough?

Most sites use chronos that measure ROF. OK, the gun may be chronoed on one battery and then they switch to another, but that's what reporting things to marshalls and random checks are for.

[shadowcaptain]

Re: When is enough, enough?

i just dont understand super high ROFs

i prefer my guns to have a similar ROF to the real counterpart

agree they should be limited just like FPS

[seansamurai1]

Re: When is enough, enough?

Hmmm, Im in two minds about this, now I fully agree with RockinRobin on the damage factor, as I did the lastime. Hit your shin twice in the same place it hurts a hellavalotmore, ouchy ouchy.
But if for example CQB as has been mentioned, a high rate of fire from 1 or 2 people is going to be the same as say having 5 guys in a corridor at the same time really thus making for some interesting play, plus not everyone strives for an Uber "look at this thing empty mags in a billianth of a second" rate of fire, so it is still in the minority, when it becomes a majority, then issues might be seen. Also it would stop people with things like Troy M7a1's playing (high ROF as standard) and what about the immortal minigun, not often you see it, but that wouldnt be able to be used.

I look at it this way, their gun however expensive, will inevitably eat its own piston long before mine does, then in a Zen like way I will smile and take one shot.

[Gaffa]

Re: When is enough, enough?

Well in truth I am one who operates on a very high rate of fire setup.

I have also heard stories about people being shocked, frankly, and opening up.

But where I'm at is - I can never understand how someone at such a close range, as per the rules, has their rifle on fully automatic (therefore breaching the rules), and why can't they just shouts bang...? Also for them to hit you, they must have been aiming at you, and if its a decent player their heart will start racing, their face will drop and they'll walk off.
Surely it's the marshalls job of having words with anyone who is shocked and opening up on full auto, no matter how unintentional, as the only rifle's I have seen without a fire selector are support rifles and AUGs.

[shadowcaptain]

Re: When is enough, enough?

gaffa what about at woodland?

if somebody is running a high ROF there then their rifle will be set to automatic etc etc blah blah

[Gaffa]

Re: When is enough, enough?

Hehe, my main site is woodland, period, and operate on a bang rule under 5 metres or so, pistols if anything else.

[shadowcaptain]

Re: When is enough, enough?

oh right, just i know lots of woodland sites including the 2 sites i go to where there is no bang rule or semi auto rule

i think it should be controlled just like FPS i controlled really

[sparrowhawk]

Re: When is enough, enough?

i feel the rof is limited already,due to the fact that the mag cant feed fast enough at a certain rate, i cant remember exactly what it is,but its something like anything over 30 rps and the magazine cant keep up

[jagillham]

Re: When is enough, enough?

I think the point is a little null. A stock gun fires at say 14-16 a second anyway. Top end set ups are averaging 30 with lipo.

Now 15 shots, or 25, don't make all that difference really.

Maybe once in a while somebody shoots by instinct, so just how many shots is allowed per sec? Stock only?. under 20?, under 25?, undeer 30?

On the whole high ROF sounds worse than it is. To demonise is it is just wrong. I've had more overkill from rentals than seen from a high rof set up.

[shadowcaptain]

Re: When is enough, enough?

lets just ban high caps

they make people far too trigger happy

[xissteve]

Re: When is enough, enough?

having experience from watching my mate get his tooth shot out, from a regular AEG at around a range of 100 yards, i can see why this sould be usefull. A ROF limit will be very usefull and wise. All tho a higher rate of fire might sound kool,
it is impractical as, A; it empties your mag quicker and B; Is just plain unfair to the potential victim.

Just my 2pence worth