Chairsofting: a mathematically optimal loadout

[RedHawk]

Re: Chairsofting: a mathematically optimal loadout

wow....

that's a bit anger you have there fella

You've obviously never seen the hoards of people who flame any one for putting down their beloved M4's then I assume (and never been on the internet). Besides, that was a moderately nice post compared to what I can actually do.

If the point of this thread is to get the most efficient loadout, why is a relatively inefficient design being chosen for a primary?

[-=256=-Swerve]

Re: Chairsofting: a mathematically optimal loadout

oh I've seen it, I just don't pay it any attention.

I also had a crane stock ICS CXP sportline, with it's short barrel, rotary hop, split upper GB and snappy 9.6v cranestock battery it would be on par with my old 74su for fitting into this theme.

[dave38x]

While the v2 gearbox is worse than the v3, ak hop units are just as bad as m4 hops, rotary units like the g36 & prowin m4 are the best in terms of fine tuning and stability.

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2

[Clone1B]

Re: Chairsofting: a mathematically optimal loadout

For me, LiPo is a no-brainer number wise. After the initial investment of £50 in a charger, £15 gets you a replacement for a standard NiMH. Airsoft (and RC) motors only work properly when they have a suitable amount of current, a LiPo battery can discharge somewhere around 30 Amps of constant current compared to NiMH's 3 Amps, this increase of 10 times for me makes a dramatic increase in the motor's power and thus the trigger response, which for something like a short CQB gun is a great investment.

[dave38x]

First off, perfectly good lipo chargers can be had for less than 20 quid.

Secondly, discharge rates can be higher than 30amps, but can be a lot less.

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2

[Proto]

Re: Chairsofting: a mathematically optimal loadout

Also a sidearm = best trigger response!

Get a TM Hi-Capa and you've got the ideal close range weapon as it's light, low power, fast, has a good gas reservoir and endlessly customizable, mod it a bit and get some more mags and it'll be a suitable replacement for your primary! So here's my list:

Hi-Capa 4.3
Belt rig
Grab bag
5.1 mags to your prefered ammo count
.25 blaster bottle
Clothes
Boots
Optional:

extreme 45 back up to run your mags full auto!

[CacklingHawk]

Re: Chairsofting: a mathematically optimal loadout

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand I'm back gents!

Can't see any maths...

But yeah, I'm guessing this is your definition of the 'demands of airsoft', as mine are to just have a laugh! Wielding a full steel AEG with a few midcaps and a coupla pouches of Haribo, wearing some funky camo or whatever I slung on that morning is my kind of airsoft... No formula needed as its always gonna be different!

I know you were approaching it from a different angle but I think 'kit requirements' is entirely subjective even when only considering airsoft as a game (which it isn't).

Looking at that pic of you with the mask- you're doing it right. No need to re-evaluate or formulate!

I was gonna go full Chinese and math out the relationship between momentum, energy, and distance travelled of a BB with backspin moving through a Newtonian fluid, but that is too much wankery even for me to handle.

One thing I'll say is my setup never fails to turn heads. I believe this is what some people refer to as "peacocking", to my everlasting shame...

Bang on, but common sense really.

A wiser man than I once remarked that common sense ain't common. I know at least two good friends started Airsoft with some truly ridiculous buys. Besides, like I said...sometimes a man just gotta write an essay about something he loves.

One of the best days airsoft I've ever had was with a TM spas Tri-shot and a belt of 30 shells, a speedloader, kneepads and DPM.

It's one of the reasons I realllyyyy want to get a TM Tri-shot when I have the cash.

Damn, I knew I forgot something. KNEEPADS. That's an excellent piece of kit that just doesn't get enough recognition.

Lots of people (almost too many to quote) have been saying good things about springer tri-shots and I agree that they are a blast to play with. I see lots of guys get a kick out of outplaying people equipped with AEGs.
They aren't for me though, I don't have the expertise to make it work. Plus I'm a pretty small guy and can't pump all day without getting tired. Hm, that came out wrong...

Objectively, the tri-shot has relatively low ammo capacity, range, fire rate, and modability, but those really add more to the fun than they take away.

Also a sidearm = best trigger response!

Get a TM Hi-Capa and you've got the ideal close range weapon as it's light, low power, fast, has a good gas reservoir and endlessly customizable, mod it a bit and get some more mags and it'll be a suitable replacement for your primary!

If we all lived in sunny California I would agree 100%. Well, maybe 90%; needing to buy gas AND ammo, expensive mags, and low ammo capacity is gonna be a problem no matter where you go. In my experience, GBBs--whether full-metal pistols or TM plastic ones--are entirely unreliable as a primary for almost six months of the year in the UK. If you can make it work then that's great, but I can't, and I'm not really sure if I'd recommend such a setup to someone with "efficient" as a tagline. "Fun", or "Baller", however, definitely.

While I enjoy being agreed with all day long as much as the next guy, the discussion can't get much further without some proper dissenting opinion.

Basically, if you want a gun that's easy to use with loads of parts you have to look beyond your bias + preferences and realise the performance of other guns. "M4 am bestust" doesn't cut it everytime, and in this case the M4 is inferior to many other designs and not just the AK. That was an example.

Unfortunately, the AK is the example you gave and so I'm gonna have to focus on it as a response.

Why AK's are easier to maintain than M4's: V3 gearbox has a better design with motor cage, doesn't require a hammer to smash pins out of body to remove it, only need a screw driver to disassemble a TM AK-47 design, only need your hands for a VFC design, selector plate doesn't f*ck up as often as an M4's. The hopup in an M4 sucks ass as well in comparison to the V3, it's overly complicated. Plus if you think about it, the V3 takes the exact same internal parts as the V2 bar the motor and cage so it's not like it is more expensive. Also, wiring a V3 is easy as piss and you don't even need to open the gearbox up to rear or front wire one.

I fully admit that I am biased towards a V2 'box over a V3, because in my time taking apart V2s and V3s I have never enjoyed the benefit of easy rewiring or hammerless disassembly (a hammer comes with the toolbox...). I only remember the hair-tearing frustration of the V3 trigger assembly and anti-reversal latch. Perhaps you have no issues with it after ample practice. Perhaps you have never had any issues with either. But I have, all of my V3 owning friends have, and I genuinely don't believe it is worth the hassle.

In both the CM16 raider and the AK you recommended, front & rear rewiring is irrelevant anyway.

The hopup in an M4 sucks ass as well in comparison to the V3, it's overly complicated.

A V3 rotary hopup assembly is more complex than a V2's just by number of bits alone. I'm not sure where the V2 hopup sucking thing came from, facts are needed here...

Plus, I don't know how somebody who would advocate a full custom build of a gun can complain about the complexity of a hopup chamber... :P

Plus (and I'm sure people will spill tears out of their anuses for me saying this) the M4 design is as overused as a Soho escort.

Your analogy is crude, but I'm actually counting this point as a positive--M4's market saturation means there is a gigantic aftermarket and a massive knowledge base in place for absolutely everything regarding the gun. Perhaps AKs are not far behind, but they are still behind. Let's talk crude--Soho escorts are probably overused, but Soho escorts also have the expertise to guarantee customer satisfaction and a personalized experience. :P

Oh, I didn't even mention how uniqueness of a gun is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

"AK's are still heavier"
>MFW CYMA AK Spetsnaz is 2.3kg whereas the gun you posted is 2.5kg, Spetsnaz is smaller, can fit a bigger battery in the stock and has an awesome gearbox.
>Logic?

Haha, 4chan posting habits showing through eh?

Anyway. ZeroIn policy dictates that I cannot post links to other retailers, but the Scottish shop that I bought my CM16 from quotes the weight as 2.1kg, so that was the number I used as reference. Looking all over teh webz though, the Spets is pretty consistently quoted at 2.3kg while the CM goes anywhere from 2.1 to 2.8. I can't really settle this without a scale, and I don't care about my weight enough to have one in my house. Let's assume that you're correct--however, incorrect conclusions drawn from the wrong information does not imply a lack of logic, nor does the comparison in weight of two airsoft guns require much in terms of logical reasoning. I find no fault with myself there.

I've also mentioned the battery issue in my original post--10quid and five minutes with a screwdriver will fix up the CM with a long stock and solve that problem. I am not sure it would be so simple if I wanted an adjustable stock for the AK.

And that argument of "M4's have more options to make it look better" - you obviously have never seen a custom AK build.

Despite being about real guns, This article echoes my opinions nicely regarding the customization options available to an M4 AEG user. Custom builds are brilliant, but require a level of expertise, patience, and sheer elbow grease that maybe 1 in 100 airsofters will have. I don't believe they are worth the money or the energy. Meanwhile a 12 year old with a basic toolbox and a ten minute youtube video can set up his M4 to go from looking like a DMR to LMG to all the letters in between, and yes I do count that as a positive.

Using the Beta Spets as an example--if I wanted to mount an Aimpoint, are there readily available railed dust-covers or front handguards? I see that it has a tiny front rail for small foregrips or flashlights. If the stock was too long for my frame, how much trouble would it be to swap it out for a six-position adjustable or equivalent? What if I wanted to mount an AFG and a laser? Should I duct-tape my GoPro to the underside? The iron sights are in the way of my optic, but they're not readily removable. Should I just rip them off? If I wanted to silver the outer barrel, would it be much trouble or is it more or less one piece with the front assembly?

Maybe you know the answer to all of those questions; maybe if I did some research I would know all of that too. That doesn't matter, because none of those questions are even questions on an M4. Well, the front iron sight is a problem on the CM16. That's the thing about concept and execution.

If the point of this thread is to get the most efficient loadout, why is a relatively inefficient design being chosen for a primary?

If I had to guess, it's probably because I'm not a cross between The Oracle and HAL9000. My personal experience told me that the design I chose was the most efficient design I've seen, and my personal preference swayed me to an M4 over that of an AK. Both of those things may be incomplete, flawed, even downright wrong. But the point of discussion, it's to find out where our opinions and experiences stand with the rest of the world.

For the record, my favorite airsoft gun--the first one I've ever bought, and the one featured in my signature photo--is a G36K. That's the beauty of preference, isn't it?

"Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer true..."
PS. Again, this isn't 4chan. C'mon buddy. I don't think you have to expect--or make--a confrontation on a forum where teenagers and grown-ass men discuss their favorite toy guns. Ain't nobody pretending they're Tier One Operators here.

[Skolob]

Re: Chairsofting: a mathematically optimal loadout

I'd just say i woud disagree with you comments on hop chamber. they arn't v2/v3 but based on th gun design. The jumber of parts doesn't dictate seal consstency and ease of adjust. With a hop unit it is all about the air seal and adjustment stbility. stability is where most
m4 hop units are flawed as the rotation on/off controll is alng the same plane as the armature, i.e, rotation back by the arm can easily rotate back the adjuster. An examples of improvement on ths are the TM recoil shock amd madbul m4 hop chambers which are designed so the adjuster is 90degrees to the armature. Even better (to some degree), the TM unit latches as you adjust to prevnt roll back. This does have a disadvantage though that you can only adjust in a number of 'clicks' and not in between ( as Im finding on my ics mp5mx pro, it makes a reaps hop rubber very hard to set up).
Your comments on gBB arnt not totally correct. i have had. mo problem with my WE M16 putting out 330fps in 1 or 2 degrees C temperatures (and even a odd sub zero game). I dont think we spend 6 months of the year that cold. They often stop in old due to poor lube usage.

As for sights, Start with iron sights and give that a go. If you are thinking of flash mags then you can wtch the stream if bbs. Flash mags not only rattle on the move ( and yes it can be heard t distance) but are also very noisy being wound on.

Ammo wise, an old bit of trouser leg sewn up nd a drink bottle stuck in makes a good quiet bb bag as bottles rattle badly.

Ive never had problen with the v3 ar latch. Its no more likley to fall out as a v2 ( look a how smiliar the designs are). the one advantage a v2 has s that the ASCU upgrades that remove the AR latch are common place and I dont think there is yet on for a v3 box (only a v3 ascu for v2 boxes).

if you want efficient load, then ats a MK4 strafer, NPA rig, glasses (with lower fave as a luxury) and a tkmax tracksuit. you get light weight clothing for speed and volume of fire. On top of that people ill certainly take notice of you ( bt msybe not in the way you wan ).

[Starfiree]

Re: Chairsofting: a mathematically optimal loadout

My entire rig is built onto my gun, It's an G2010/F2000 it has a molle rig built onto the back of it custom made just behind and above the magazine, it holds 2x double stack m4 mag pouches and on the left a radio and utility pouch or more lately a holster with a revolver in, i carry 4 Hi-caps, i use alpenflage camo and the entire smock is full of pouches as it is designed so that no rig is needed this allows me to carry bb's and what ever else i may need, the trousers have built in suspenders and reinforced front leg panels that protects my knees, the camo works pretty much everywhere in the uk and is cheep.
And to those thinking the gun rig would make the gun weigh alot, well the f2000 is rear heavy, the second you shoulder it all that weight cannot be felt.
The gun it's self has a high cycle tm motor running at around 30rps for about 80m the battery lasts all day with plenty of full auto using a 9.6v and it has 2 sights a built in 4x and a c-more on the top of that.

Just thought i would share my personal effort on making a near perfect rig/gun for general airsoft purpose.