Recommendations for a good DMR building platform?

[FireKnife]

Re: Recommendations for a good DMR building platform?

Wait, no mention of a G3 with £800 upgrades? For shame people of Zero In you have a reputation to uphold.

As for the serious answer a M14 wouldn't steer you wrong, but at £500 you might need to look at a cheaper clone and mod the internals to get consistent power and accuracy.

'FireKnife'

[assimilate]

Re: Recommendations for a good DMR building platform?

you can get cheap m14's
my classic army m14 scout is for sale atm at a reasonably cheap price

[god84]

Re: Recommendations for a good DMR building platform?

You said TW, but the phrase 'TW' was stolen, along with the entire design of the weapon, from Systema. TW = Systema, or clones = PTW. The DTW in particular is the worst of the clones, according to the various reviews and the like. This thread in particular quotes the externals as "shocking", with a broken cylinder head, failed MOSFET and an unwinding motor all featuring on one gun. Large numbers of the DTW's parts aren't compatible with other TWs owing to extremely poor tolerances, so it's disproportionately expensive to repair - and repair it you will, judging by how poorly it's reviewed.



I don't agree. Read up on some owners' opinions on this very forum:









There are users who like the DTW but they're inevitably shooters who already have considerable experience with PTW-derivatives (e.g. TOBI) who know how to work on the guns; TOBI himself replaced a number of parts with Systema OEM (which, as anyone with a functioning brain knows, is not affordable on a £500 budget), and said that when the electronics ditch he'll be replacing them with Systema too. The considered opinion is that to make the DTW shoot to an acceptable standard you have to sink considerably more than the value of the gun back into it in new parts and electronics, and that for the money you could buy a Celsius and enjoy better-made parts and a better warranty.

In conclusion, if you want a TW, buy a Systema and have it upgraded, or buy a Celsius CX3 and have it upgraded. Don't tell people that for £500 they can have a good TW because what they're going to get is a badly made copy; the DTW is a design that Systema can't make properly at £1000 for a third of that and it shows.

So then my opinion DOES matter, as i AM an owner of the DTW. And cosmetically it isnt that great but performance wise i havent had an issue with it. I have a MDD hop in it too, which apparently are poor well mine seems to be just fine.

So what does the OP want, an AEG that looks the part or a AEG that PLAYS the part? I can change the body of my DTW later when i have finished on buying other things, but as it currently shoots im happy with it.

Can someone PLEASE call the generalization police? TW may have been stolen, but that can be said about AEG, its a generalization. Systema isnt the ONLY TW, first yes only no.

My TW shoots fine i dont know why you seem to think you can slander my post when you havent even used one by the sound of it. And from the performance of the CTW i used my DTW is way better. I dont think the ants appreciated me aiming at them whilst the pigeons wernt happy that im hitting them.

[Stealthkiller]

Re: Recommendations for a good DMR building platform?

Rs Svd out of the box with no mods at all will accurately hit , and I mean accurately a target at 70 /80 Mtrs . Upgrade the spring and the range goes mad on them . 90 Mtrs is possible with the correct setup and / spring , ammo ( man sized target )
What sort of proven range can a dtw hit ?

[PureSilver]

Re: Recommendations for a good DMR building platform?

So then my opinion DOES matter, as i AM an owner of the DTW.

Absolutely! Unfortunately so are a number of the other people in that thread, and they don't agree with your assessment that all is well in DTW-world.

And cosmetically it isnt that great but performance wise i havent had an issue with it. I have a MDD hop in it too, which apparently are poor well mine seems to be just fine.

So what does the OP want, an AEG that looks the part or a AEG that PLAYS the part? I can change the body of my DTW later when i have finished on buying other things, but as it currently shoots im happy with it.

I don't think "it isn't that great" really does justice to the complaints. Why would you suggest that someone else buy a gun that will need large amounts of it replaced (including all the external parts), when they could just buy a gun that was built right in the first place? TWs - especially the DTW, which as you've noted has a very poorly-regarded hop-up unit - are not the only rifles that 'play the part'; in fact, for £500 (as above) you could have a RealSword SVD that would trounce any TW in DMR performance alone, before you get to how crap similarly-priced TWs are built in comparison.

I could understand if OP had said "I need a TW-platform weapon and I only have £300 to spend" but he didn't - he wants a DMR, which is a high-powered rifle locked to semiautomatic, whereas a TW is a mid-powered weapon optimized for burst/automatic fire. There's nothing so brilliant about TWs that we should recommend them for non-assault roles, particularly if the one we're recommending is the DTW.

Can someone PLEASE call the generalization police? TW may have been stolen, but that can be said about AEG, its a generalization. Systema isnt the ONLY TW, first yes only no.

Systema aren't just the first and best TW-platform, they're the inventors of it. The prefix of 'P' to 'TW' is only of interest to people who're buying clones; sorry if I don't place the same importance as you do on the difference between the ones worth buying (Systemas, Celsius) and the ones that aren't. And to be honest, I think it's you that needs to police their generalisations, because even if...

My TW shoots fine

...lots - perhaps even the majority - of DTWs don't.

i dont know why you seem to think you can slander my post when you havent even used one by the sound of it.

Slander is spoken, so technically I 'libelled' your post. That, of course, is absolute rubbish because I didn't do any such thing - I disagreed with you which is neither slanderous nor libelous. I don't own a DTW but I have shot and handled one and I was much less impressed than you are. Fortunately, I don't have to listen to anything you say, because...

I dont think the ants appreciated me aiming at them whilst the pigeons wernt happy that im hitting them.

...you're clearly a moron, because only a moron shoots at animals with airsoft toys. Grow up.

[Stealthkiller]

Re: Recommendations for a good DMR building platform?

Wait, no mention of a G3 with £800 upgrades? For shame people of Zero In you have a reputation to uphold.


'FireKnife'

His budget is too small !!

[Heinz]

Re: Recommendations for a good DMR building platform?

Another +1 on the Real Sword SVD. Having worked on several of them, I'm extremely impressed with the design and build quality of them. Stick a Prommy barrel in it, IER-Hop it, and thats pretty much all it needs internally. Drop a POSP or 1P21 onto it, and you've got one hell of a DMR! To get the same level of performance out of a G&P SR25 - or similar - you'll probably end up spending more money than an RS SVD and the parts i've mentioned.

[Stealthkiller]

Re: Recommendations for a good DMR building platform?

The rs svds hop unit is about as good as it gets in any Airsoft weopon manufactured today . Team that up with a solid non moving / flexing way they have bolted everything together . An overbore piston and the longest barrel in Airsoft ( I believe ) put an extra gear in the gearbox and voila you have the rs svd .

Where has the type 97 sniper release gone to . ?

[god84]

Re: Recommendations for a good DMR building platform?

Absolutely! Unfortunately so are a number of the other people in that thread, and they don't agree with your assessment that all is well in DTW-world.



I don't think "it isn't that great" really does justice to the complaints. Why would you suggest that someone else buy a gun that will need large amounts of it replaced (including all the external parts), when they could just buy a gun that was built right in the first place? TWs - especially the DTW, which as you've noted has a very poorly-regarded hop-up unit - are not the only rifles that 'play the part'; in fact, for £500 (as above) you could have a RealSword SVD that would trounce any TW in DMR performance alone, before you get to how crap similarly-priced TWs are built in comparison.

I could understand if OP had said "I need a TW-platform weapon and I only have £300 to spend" but he didn't - he wants a DMR, which is a high-powered rifle locked to semiautomatic, whereas a TW is a mid-powered weapon optimized for burst/automatic fire. There's nothing so brilliant about TWs that we should recommend them for non-assault roles, particularly if the one we're recommending is the DTW.



Systema aren't just the first and best TW-platform, they're the inventors of it. The prefix of 'P' to 'TW' is only of interest to people who're buying clones; sorry if I don't place the same importance as you do on the difference between the ones worth buying (Systemas, Celsius) and the ones that aren't. And to be honest, I think it's you that needs to police their generalisations, because even if...



...lots - perhaps even the majority - of DTWs don't.



Slander is spoken, so technically I 'libelled' your post. That, of course, is absolute rubbish because I didn't do any such thing - I disagreed with you which is neither slanderous nor libelous. I don't own a DTW but I have shot and handled one and I was much less impressed than you are. Fortunately, I don't have to listen to anything you say, because...



...you're clearly a moron, because only a moron shoots at animals with airsoft toys. Grow up.

Well if you take that last line seriously then you are some form of idiot yourself. Basicly i was trying to make fun of the CTW I fired.

And well you did libelle the DTW i was talking of, why would i talk of any other DTW other than my own experiences. All your negative points regarding the DTW sound more like guess work coupled with a few people saying they are poor. I have watched reviews read reviews good and bad, maybe i got lucky but i spent my money on it and its fine. I would however swap out the electrics for etiny as i would prefer a different stock. But meh, thats only for cosmetic reasons.

I clearly know that Systema are the inventors of the PTW system, hence why i said they are the first.

You keep banging on about DTW needing all parts replaced... you dont know that! you dont have one. I just think your being a snob, plus just pop in a more powerful cylinder and im certain you can program the mosfet to single shot.

I have only added the MDD hop and Hyperion barrel, seems to do the trick 60m's give or take 1 or 2.

Why are you so offended by me nominating the DTW?

And why are you not bitching to people who keep saying about the SVD, He CLEARY says wants to BUILD one! not have one from the off, i think he wants to put his own touch too it.

[dth1]

Re: Recommendations for a good DMR building platform?

At some point people will realise that we are individuals and therefore we all have different opinions and views :-)

In my experience, as a previous PTW and current CTW and DTW (x2) owner, I have formed the opinion;

- as both my DTWs are still up and running sweet, the internals aren't as bad as some are saying, yes I have changed the inner barrel and hop to 2012 ptw ones, but the gearbox/motor/electrics are a few months old, well used and still no issues....but yes, the external parts of the DTW are no where near that of a PTW or CTW

- my CTW had issues with the electrics and motor, which is why it's at a well known retailer having etiny and fuse custom parts fitted, my DTWs have lasted longer than the CTW did. But yes, the externals of the CTW are a lot better than DTW

-ptw was absolutely spot on, had a 2008 with no mods and it ran like a dream, only had it a couple of months before finances meant it had to go, and neither CTW or DTW come close for performance or feel....but that's why you pay the money!

So back on topic.....personally' I would go for a DTW m16 dmr build, simply as it takes seconds to change a 500 fps cylinder to a 350 fps cylinder, it can be locked to semi a number of ways if you know what your doing, and with the trigger response you don't really need full auto anyway, and I believe this could be done for around £500 that includes a spare cylinder and upgraded motor.

[Stealthkiller]

Re: Recommendations for a good DMR building platform?

The object of a dmr is to have a semi automatic gun that can be used to pick off targets at longer ranges and counter snipe the dtw has not got the range out of the box in the first place , many cheaper to buy guns and less complicated and cheaper to upgrade Airsoft guns have already got the basics in place , its just a case of optimising and tweaking / upgrading a solid accurate gun in the first place .
60 Mtrs is obtainable on a combat machine with a tightbore fitted nowadays . So to have a gun that can outrange modded and out of the box premium guns you need to be hitting 70 Mtrs +
A top tech m16 can hit 60 Mtrs nowadays with no mods ,
If you were to try and build a dtw with a 70/ 80 mtr range you would need to junk most of the gun to do it . Costs would spiral past his budget very quickly . And that's before you sort out the reliability issues .
On his budget the best dmr is a gun that was designed as one from the outset.Rs svd , At 450 fps ( usual dmr site limits ) he would be out ranging most bolt action sniper guns running at 500 fps
Even at 370/390 fps it outranges everything par top end bolt actions .
Other options put forward are the next best contenders the m14 and sr25 both regognised as long ranging . Proven dmr weopons on a skirmish field . ( can't believe you missed the h bar aug and the mi6 out though guys )

[eatthis]

Re: Recommendations for a good DMR building platform?

m14 ebr

[Heinz]

Re: Recommendations for a good DMR building platform?

Though M14 based DMR's look lovely, the practicality of the build needs to be taken into account as well. It's a hell of a lot quicker to strip down an M16 or SR25 based DMR for those little tweaks that you'll need to do to maximise performance, than it is to strip an M14 EBR.

As to the whole D/C/PTW as DMR debate, all I can say (and having owned several PTWs) is that the Hop-up system really isn't up to the job of wringing every last ounce of accuracy out of the platform. The MDD one I messed around with didnt impress me either - the TW cage-and-roller hop design is just intrinsically flawed IMHO. To truly DMR a TW, you need to go down the tried and tested IER-Hop route, and hopefully when KDM iron out the problems with their aftermarket unit (designed to take TM type barrels and Hop rubbers), then it'll be possible to make a TW perform as well as the RS SVD.

[Chandler]

Re: Recommendations for a good DMR building platform?

No need to shun the idea of a GBBr. Co2 mags with a properly set up system will have consistency. And won't change the Fps with the weather either. Nothing better than smashing a .3 out with recoil and getting that beauty of a hit.
Everyone has an m14 dmr. Steer clear if you want to be different. Settle for a GBBr you know you want to.

Or an gbb m14 dmr. Must be good at tinkering though.

Two things

DMR and budget don't go together.
Dropping in parts don't automatically make your gun better. Otherwise everyone would have amazing guns. Instead people have guns full of extras and none of them shoot like any other. Some guns have the same upgrades but 15m different and 20fps variance lol

[assimilate]

Re: Recommendations for a good DMR building platform?

sharp stick

you know when i was in falluja