Is this 'electronic hop up gun' a RIF?

[Longshot]

I bought this MP7 for my gun obsessed 3 year old at a market stall recently. Despite it not actually being an airsoft gun the manufacturers have amusingly stuck 'hop up version' all over the box (as well as pictures made to look like Call of Duty too).

Now it doesn't fire, but it is a 1:1 replica of the MP7A1, complete with HK trades. When you fire it you can tell it's clearly a toy since it lights up red and blue and the barrel moves (or 'circumvents,' according to the explanation on the box...), but this would have to be considered a RIF nonetheless, right? I've pictured it next to my KSC MP7, which is obviously a RIF, for reference, or so you can play spot the difference.

[BAMF]

Re: Is this 'electronic hop up gun' a RIF?

Yes, it's a RIF, as it's a "Realistic Imitaion Firearm."

[dadio]

Re: Is this 'electronic hop up gun' a RIF?

it's a rif , funny about the hop

[bob86]

Re: Is this 'electronic hop up gun' a RIF?

if it looks like a gun, smells like a gun, and tastes like a gun, chances are its a RIF





(unless it is actually a gun, a deac gun, or an airgun :D )

[loki7491]

Re: Is this 'electronic hop up gun' a RIF?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/38

[Longshot]

Re: Is this 'electronic hop up gun' a RIF?

You see, I know all this (as I think you two know) but it just further highlights some oddities of the law.

I mean, this market seller has these sat on the front of his stall twice a week on the main walkway through town. Now I doubt he knows it's illegal to sell them (and we could question whether the police officers who must have walked past and seen them many times should know) but he could, in theory, receive five years imprisonment for selling this £5 toy.

The other oddity is that he could actually ask people who want to buy this £5 toy whether they are involved in theatre work, or in a re-enactment group, etc. in order to buy one. Indeed he could ask me to give him my UKARA number in order to purchase one so that he was legally covered, but how exactly would me regularly playing with airsoft guns mean I should be entitled to a toy gun that just makes sounds? How does that qualify me more than anyone else?

It is, as we know, a weird situation.

I would also point out that this thing came with a folding vertical grip and flip up iron sights just like the real one; for £5 it's a truly awesome little toy. However, it also has an in built red laser on it that seems to be powerful enough to target the moon. I'm thinking of breaking it before my boy burns his retinas out...

[Stealthkiller]

Re: Is this 'electronic hop up gun' a RIF?

Ignorance of the law is not a defence in a court of law . The retailer / stall holder is breaking the law . All toy guns have to be brightly coloured / unrealistic sized and not mistake able for a real gun .
Firing or non firing that gun is a rif , as covered under the vcra / asbu legislations .
As for the laser fitted to it . I bet it contravenes all the toy safety laws laid down in this country . It could seriously damage some ones eyesight if not your own kids ,

[PureSilver]

Re: Is this 'electronic hop up gun' a RIF?

Steathkiller's nailed it for me; just because people don't know they're breaking the law doesn't mean they aren't breaking it. It is up to you as an individual to ascertain whether your actions are legal or illegal; in the pretty obviously borderline case of selling something that looks like a gun you should be on notice to be extra careful when checking the legality of your position. It's not like it's hard to find this information; get on Google, for Christ's sake. Like Stealthkiller I'd bet what little money I have to an old tyre that this toy conforms to precisely none of the various regulations required in the EU and this country. Does that make it dangerous? Not necessarily. Does it remove a safety net intended to protect your children? Absolutely.

As for the police, bluntly they need to take action. Not enforcing the law leads to uncertainty on behalf of most people as to whether it's a valid law or not, and that only makes things worse.

[Mickydoos]

Re: Is this 'electronic hop up gun' a RIF?

Indeed he could ask me to give him my UKARA number in order to purchase one so that he was legally covered, but how exactly would me regularly playing with airsoft guns mean I should be entitled to a toy gun that just makes sounds? How does that qualify me more than anyone else?

It doesnt. Whether you have a defence or not, the seller has committed a crime by selling it to you. The fact you have a UKARA number, therefore a site membership somewhere and thus the seller has a specific defence against prosecution.

[heroshark]

Re: Is this 'electronic hop up gun' a RIF?

saw a kid in the street with one of these. Turned to my mate and pointed it out. The kids mother noticed and came out with "what you saying about my kid" in a shitty tone ,"Nothing I was just appreciating his MP7".

[bob86]

Re: Is this 'electronic hop up gun' a RIF?

saw a kid in the street with one of these. Turned to my mate and pointed it out. The kids mother noticed and came out with "what you saying about my kid" in a shitty tone ,"Nothing I was just appreciating his MP7".

i would have said 'we were just wondering how long it would be until armed police turn up and shoot him'

[Longshot]

Re: Is this 'electronic hop up gun' a RIF?

I get the concept chaps, he is breaking the law for selling what is clearly a RIF to us (I don't let my boy out of the house with any of the guns he has that might even be considered RIF-like by the way) but I'm just wondering: (a) does anyone take RIFs like this (those are aren't airsoft based) seriously? Because (apart from you lot) they don't seem to, and (b) would he actually be covered if he was asking for a defence before selling them, and if so, how does that make any sense?

It doesnt. Whether you have a defence or not, the seller has committed a crime by selling it to you. The fact you have a UKARA number, therefore a site membership somewhere and thus the seller has a specific defence against prosecution.

I don't 'have a defence' because I don't need one; nobody does to buy a RIF (if they are over 18). But, whilst he is committing an offence by selling a RIF (as everybody who sells a RIF in this country is) by providing him with proof of my UKARA membership I am effectively providing him with a defence against prosecution. But how does me being an airsofter (or having any of the other defences for him for that matter) mean that he should be legally covered for selling me something which has nothing to do with airsoft?

[bob86]

Re: Is this 'electronic hop up gun' a RIF?

the fact that the guns we buy for airsoft fire bbs makes no difference in the law. they are RIF's

these guns, because they have no brightly painted parts on them to differentiate them from real guns, also make them RIF's

the exemption airsofters have for our sport allow us to buy RIF's not airsoft guns

same goes for film companys and re-enactors, they have the same exemption as us, to be able to buy a RIF, we as airsofters just have a more readily proveable defense for this exemption than reenactors, because the ppl who want to sell RIF airsoft guns set something up to enable it to be easier for them to check someone is legally entitled to buy it...

[Longshot]

Re: Is this 'electronic hop up gun' a RIF?

Again, I get most of that, but it still seems silly. Consider:

the exemption airsofters have for our sport allow us to buy RIF's not airsoft guns

We do not have an 'exemption to buy RIFs' because we don't need one. If you're over 18 it's not illegal to buy a RIF! What we have as airsofters is the ability to provide a defence to someone selling a RIF (which is illegal).

Now as you point out, our ability to provide a defence to the seller is not as a seller of airsoft weapons but as a seller of RIFs, but why should the fact that someone plays airsoft allow someone who sells toy guns that are RIFs (and clearly nothing to do with airsoft) to theoretically avoid prosecution for doing so?

[bob86]

Re: Is this 'electronic hop up gun' a RIF?

If you're over 18 it's not illegal to buy a RIF!

ummm, yes it is. thats the whole point. RIF's are illegal