An update on differences betwen 'Red gas' and 'Green Gas'

[chaz_r33_gtr]

Found an interesting article a way back on another forum see this linkhttp://www.airsoftsociety.com/forums...as-guns-30800/ regarding gases. After doing a fair bit of research. It discusses the properties of HFC134a, HCFC 22, Propane and C02. Ill refrain from calling them red / green gas as to be honest whats in a bottle of red or green gas could be any of the latter 3 depending on who makes it.

Interestingly in the article, the table of Vapour pressures vs temparature seem to be incorrect between the Propane and HCFC22 it seems they should be swapped. All my research into gas property data sheets have HCFC at a higher Vapour pressure than propane at 20°C. Propane is 8.531bar/ 123psi at 21°C and HCFC 22 is 9.08bar or 131.6psi at 20°C.

So red gas that is actually HCFC 22 is not enormoulsy more powerful than Propane from a Pressure point of view. But HCFC 22 is almost twice as dense at propane e.g. at 15°C at Atmospherice pressure Propane Vapour density is 1.8988kg/cm3 whist HCFC 22 is 3.7812kg/cm3

So I guess HCFC22 is more powerful than propane but if? its only the gas pressure that affecets gun components then its not significantly more powerful than propane and the increased gas density may? transfer more energy to the bb??

[ICEMONKEY]

Re: An update on differences betwen 'Red gas' and 'Green Gas'

Yawn..... zzzz oops! Sorry dozed off for a minute then!


F&O

[PureSilver]

Re: An update on differences betwen 'Red gas' and 'Green Gas'

This seems pretty irrelevant, as chlorodifluoromethane (a.k.a. HCFC-22 or R-22) was banned from most industrial uses twenty years ago and phased out altogether in the UK five years ago. Nothing you buy new in a can in the EU will have that in it, insofar as I'm aware.

What's the point you're trying to make?

[seansamurai1]

Re: An update on differences betwen 'Red gas' and 'Green Gas'

R-22 hasn't been used for years, it was phased out for R134-A which is now R-144.
ANY CFC falls under both the Kyoto and Montreal protocols.

Some areas get dispensation for something's, such as the RN.
They used BCF and BTM on some ships for firefighting, the dispensation is 'until something as good or better than what's available.

[chaz_r33_gtr]

Re: An update on differences betwen 'Red gas' and 'Green Gas'

Wasn't really trying to make a point. More a discussion topic and that red gas might not be as dangerous for your gun. Having said that was looking for a good gas for winter use as propane and even c02 have problems..so thought hcfc22 might be good alternative.. hadn't appreciated it was banned..!

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[seansamurai1]

Re: An update on differences betwen 'Red gas' and 'Green Gas'

The WE nuprol 3.0 is specifically for winter and does perform well from what I've heard.
Guarder powerful too.

However, if propane isn't effective enough, may be worth looking at the Gbb system itself.

[PureSilver]

Re: An update on differences betwen 'Red gas' and 'Green Gas'

Without a gas chromatography lab to back up what I'm saying, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that almost anything you buy in an 'airsoft' can in the UK will be either propane or HFC-134A. There may be a little bit of propene and/or butane in 'high-power' propane mixes, and there's '144A' which hasn't been conclusively identified, but the basic rule is that if it's 'low-power' it's HFC-134A, and if it's 'green gas', 'red gas', 'power gas', 'winter gas', 'sniper gas' or anything else it's propane. The rest is simple marketing bullshit.

WE's Nuprol 2.0 lists its ingredients as propane and silicone oil. WE's Nuprol 3.0 lists its ingredients as propane and silicone oil. Airsoft Surgeon's RWA gas lists its ingredients as silicone oil and C₃H₈, which is... propane.

There is no magic to airsoft propellants, just chemistry, and even that is heavily restricted by price, availability, and regulation. Propane has a reasonable vapour pressure and a high expansion ratio, it's cheap, readily available, and lightly regulated; hence it is the logical propellant of choice. Almost everything else (with the exception of propene, butane and butene) performs less well or is some combination of more expensive, harder to acquire, or heavily regulated.

[chaz_r33_gtr]

Re: An update on differences betwen 'Red gas' and 'Green Gas'

@pure silver... Well said.

@Sean samurai... Know hat your saying about the gas system... But perhaps I'm expecting too much from a gbb pistol or rifle at temps around 0 to 5℃.

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[dave38x]

Re: An update on differences betwen 'Red gas' and 'Green Gas'

My glock and my mp9 both work fine on propane at those temps :p

As far as I can tell nuprol 3 behaves exactly the same in my mp9 and my glock as propane - 280ish fps on a cqb bolt.

Maybe less cooldown, but certainly not 18 quids worth of less cooldown.

Quicksilver - I looked for the ingredients of nuprol 3, couldn't see them anywhere on the bottle!

[seansamurai1]

Re: An update on differences betwen 'Red gas' and 'Green Gas'

134A is also non existent nowadays. Its 144A.
Its fridge gas if you don't already know.

What weapons are you using anyway?

[Viper Scout]

Re: An update on differences betwen 'Red gas' and 'Green Gas'

This seems pretty irrelevant, as chlorodifluoromethane (a.k.a. HCFC-22 or R-22) was banned from most industrial uses twenty years ago and phased out altogether in the UK five years ago. Nothing you buy new in a can in the EU will have that in it, insofar as I'm aware.

What's the point you're trying to make?

[QUOTE=seansamurai1;1324184]134A is also non existent nowadays. Its 144A.
Its fridge gas if you don't already know

Do you two work at Cern on the Hadron Colider during the week?
All that pent up frustration, no wonder the rest of us don't stand a chance at the weekends!

[seansamurai1]

Re: An update on differences betwen 'Red gas' and 'Green Gas'

[QUOTE=Viper Scout;1324192]

134A is also non existent nowadays. Its 144A.
Its fridge gas if you don't already know

Do you two work at Cern on the Hadron Colider during the week?
All that pent up frustration, no wonder the rest of us don't stand a chance at the weekends!

Haha, no, I was in charge of fridges, aircon and compressed air systems for quite some time in my last job. Spent a fair amount of time around the stuff.

[Viper Scout]

Re: An update on differences betwen 'Red gas' and 'Green Gas'

[QUOTE=seansamurai1;1324211]

Haha, no, I was in charge of fridges, aircon and compressed air systems for quite some time in my last job. Spent a fair amount of time around the stuff.

Ahh! You're the man to ask, how do you overcome stiff nipples?

[pacey]

Re: An update on differences betwen 'Red gas' and 'Green Gas'

I can simplify this more if required, Red can has propane in it, green can has propane in it, Black can has propane in it. Cans that have 134A written on them have 134A in them.

[ICEMONKEY]

Re: An update on differences betwen 'Red gas' and 'Green Gas'

[QUOTE=Viper Scout;1324192]

134A is also non existent nowadays. Its 144A.
Its fridge gas if you don't already know

Do you two work at Cern on the Hadron Colider during the week?
All that pent up frustration, no wonder the rest of us don't stand a chance at the weekends!

PMSL 😂👍


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