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HPA and GBB limits law changes
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KenIchikawa
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Oct 2015
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#1
HPA and GBB limits law changes
24 January, 2017, 23:21
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...53730731406572
Saw this trimmed down as much as I could.
Full auto HPA/GBB and the PCB
The law on airsoft power limits is changing.
The airsoft exception in the Policing and Crime Bill 2015-16 (PCB) will (amongst other things) set the upper power limit for fully automatic airsoft guns at 1.3 Joules (approximately 370fps with a .20g bb). To classify as an airsoft gun it must be;
‘Not capable of discharging a missile (of any kind) with kinetic energy at the muzzle of the weapon that exceeds the permitted level.’
nuttytechy
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#2
25 January, 2017, 00:13
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
Basically its saying if any GBB and HPA's which can fire more than 1.3 joule (370fps with a .02g bb) can lead the owner of the gun in alot of trouble even if you turn down the regulator or use different gas so the gun can be under the FPS limit for a site
If it is taken to a lab because the police has confiscated it for any reason, They will fire the gun to its full potential to find the true power output of the gun.
I reject reality and substitute my own
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Tiercel
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#3
25 January, 2017, 00:29
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
You'd have to be spectacularly stupid and piss the police off big time for them to go through the effort of confiscating your guns for full analysis and attempting to find out if its capable of going over the 370fps limit or not. So Id hardly worry about this affecting... well... anyone. This is going to affect Johnny Scrote on the street pissing about with his Chinese 500fps AEG rather than any actual regular airsofter.
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Sprint
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#4
25 January, 2017, 00:31
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
Tricky.
How does paintball stand on that?
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svman730
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#5
25 January, 2017, 01:03
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
All you need to do is alter the regulator in a way that it cant be adjusted without removing something as they have stated that no mechanical alterations can be made to the weapon during testing. This could be as simple as drilling and tapping a small hole in the adjustment knob to install a bolt that would prevent it from being adjusted. Use a bolt with a special anti tamper head on it and your golden as the tool to remove it would not be considered a standard house hold item. Removing the reg from the gun and replacing it with another would not be allowed during the test as it would be a mechanical alteration.
Standard gbbr mags could be fitted with disc vents such as you find on co2 bottles. It would be a bit of faff for someone to do the r and d to work out the thickness the disc would need to be to rupture when a gas with a higher pressure than green gas is used but it could be done. That way anyone trying to put black gas or any gas with a high enouth psi to make your gun fall foul of the law would dissable the mag. Changing the mag would also me a mechanical alteration under test conditions wouldnt it?
The burst disc scystem could also be installed between the reg and the gun on a hpa rifle so that the gun wold be rendered inoperable if someone tried to crank up the reg.
As has allready been stated its highly unlikely that anyone will ever need to protect themselves against such testing but for the truly paranoid there are many ways of making your hpa or gbbr rifle bullet proof against such testing. That is off course assuming that the statement in that face book post about them not being allowed to make mechanical alterations when testing is true.
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Hangtight
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#6
25 January, 2017, 05:57
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
There have been cases of confiscated air rifles being subjected to testing with a variety of pellets, some of which can push the output up over 12ftlb when it runs at, say 11.5ftlb when fed its usual diet. Giving the ease with which gas and hpa rifles can exhibit joule creep with heavier ammo, perhaps this should be borne in mind. However, instances of confiscation from responsible air rifle owners have so far been rare, usually only taking place when a complaint has been made. But it only takes a neighbour to object to you plinking in the garden (which has happened) to result in a knock on the door from the police.
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JellyBelly16
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#7
25 January, 2017, 12:21
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
When is this become full effect?
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1st commando
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#8
25 January, 2017, 12:21
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
The biggest issue of this will be anyone (business or personal) that is importing AEGs , GBB or HPA into the UK
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JellyBelly16
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#9
25 January, 2017, 12:26
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
Also, if I was to put a npas into a gbbr and made sure it's locked off and all that I should be ok etc?
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W0lf
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#10
25 January, 2017, 12:50
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
Unless you decide to walk through a council estate with one, or as 1st commando pointed out about importing, this should never be a problem. Out of curiosity though, what does it say about semi auto? My scar h is locked to semi and can be adjusted up to 480fps
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colinjallen
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#11
25 January, 2017, 13:28
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
The issue with semi-auto only weapons is that the bill states that any airsoft gun that was DESIGNED to run on full auto is limited to 1.3J. Lawyers with whom I have discussed this all agree that this almost certainly means that the only semi-only weapons that would be allowed to run above 1.3J would be those that were designed and manufactured to be semi only; ones locked to semi but which were designed and manufactured to run in full auto would still be restricted to 1.3J.
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Jam_Man
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#12
25 January, 2017, 21:36
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
Whilst everyone is talking about Gas and HPA someone raised a fair point about AEG.
My initial thoughts were if the AEG has a spring that restricts it to under 1.3J then there is no issue, the fact that you can upgrade it to be more powerful wouldnt matter because it its actual state it wasnt over the limit.
The point made though was regarding it being "readily convertible". Now I though initially this meant being able to flick a switch, gas or regulator to make it more powerful without changing any parts.
However in this guidance in April
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...l_2016_v20.pdf
It says
Readily convertible imitation firearms
2.23 As indicated in paragraph 2.3, a firearm is defined at section 57(1) in the 1968 Act as a
“lethal barrelled weapon from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged”.
Section 1 of the 1982 Act extended the provisions of section 1 of the 1968 Act to certain
imitation firearms. Therefore, a firearm certificate is required to possess, purchase or
acquire an imitation firearm which:
a) has the appearance of being a firearm to which section 1 of the 1968 Act applies; and
b) is so constructed or adapted as to be readily convertible into a firearm to which that
section applies.
10 Guide on Firearms Licensing Law
2.24 Under section 1(6) of the 1982 Act, an imitation firearm is regarded as readily convertible
into a firearm to which section 1 of the 1968 Act applies if:
a) it can be converted without any special skill on the part of the person converting it in
the construction or adaptation of firearms of any description; and
b) the work involved in converting it does not require equipment or tools other than
such as are in common use by persons carrying out works of construction and
maintenance in their own homes.
Section 1(5) of the 1982 Act provides a defence for a person accused of an offence to
show that he did not know, and had no reason to suspect, that the imitation firearm`
was so constructed or adapted as to be readily convertible into a firearm to which section
1 of the Act applies.
Id like to hear a lawyers opinion on that, because according to that guideline an AEG could easily fall into the readily convertible category.
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colinjallen
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#13
25 January, 2017, 21:53
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
Jam_man,
The new bill states this as a change to the 1968 act:
"An “airsoft gun” is not to be regarded as a firearm for the purposes of this Act."
Therefore, none of that applies to Airsoft guns under the new bill.
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Jam_Man
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#14
25 January, 2017, 22:40
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
If it says that then surely there is no issue with any GBB or HPA then because the whole issue is the guns being classed as firearms
Or am I reading that wrong?
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colinjallen
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#15
25 January, 2017, 22:46
Re: HPA and GBB limits law changes
The new bill also defines the power limits below which various types of airsoft guns will not be considered as firearms. If they can go over that limit without being structurally modified, and if the police test them and they do, they can be considered as firearms and the owner is at risk of prosecution.
The inference in the bill is that, for example, opening a gun to change a spring would be seen as a structural modification, whereas using stronger gas or opening a valve up would not be.
The sections that you quoted from the 1968 Act will no longer apply once the bill becomes law as an airsoft gun that is under the relevant power limit is no longer considered a firearm, so the sections will not apply to it.
Hopefully, this is clear.
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