Considering starting first airsoft CQB site in Suffolk...

[Grounded_Pilot]

Hi there,
Firstly I don't want to discredit ZeroOne Airsoft, (who are a wonderful retailer and skirmish provider).

Next, now that's out the way- I live in Suffolk, right on the North border with Norfolk in the region of East Anglia! I am thoroughly sick of woodland skirmishing, having to drive well over 300 mile round trips to Cambridgeshire for my CQB fix! (And even further for those on the East Coast; such as Lowestoft, Gt. Yarmouth and Southwold!)

So, I've discovered a relatively unused laser tag site in Ellough, near Beccles at the "Beginning of the Broads". Located around 20-40mins from Norwich, Yarmouth and Lowestoft on high-speed roads; it's well placed for those on the coast. To view the location check out "Ellough Park Raceway", a go-karting arena built on an old WW2 airfield.

I am keen to see how many people here would be interested in the concept. I have seen many similar threads going up in the past- all of which have amounted to...well... nothing!

Well here's a pic or three of the site, considering the size it made for some really interesting games when it was tested by 20 players and 4 marshals!
site1.jpgShot from a viewing platform

site2.jpgShot of the entrance to the proposed safe zone (US Army inflatable Medic Tent)

site3.jpgOne shot of many possible cover scenarios.

Want to fully express my support for ZeroOne Airsoft and respect for their marvelous forum. I want to make the most of the UK's best airsoft forum site to hear what real airsofters think, not to directly compete with ZeroOne!

[G33m4N]

Re: Considering starting first airsoft CQB site in Suffolk...

yer looks ok, i am down at ipswich quite a bit, i would drop in... the only thing i would say its looks very open and a bit on the small side from your pictures.

[Grounded_Pilot]

Re: Considering starting first airsoft CQB site in Suffolk...

yer looks ok, i am down at ipswich quite a bit, i would drop in... the only thing i would say its looks very open and a bit on the small side from your pictures.

That was a concern of mine originally, but when we actually ran it with 20 players, everyone disappeared pretty well :P And it wasn't like there were too many players so no-one could move... it seemed to work ok! Also, 3 of the 4 "sides" you could say are cornered off by 12ft raised banks, and any cross-breezes are broken up by structures. But sadly, no it is not an indoor arena!

With about 11 portacabins on-site, tens of different barricades and many vantage positions that can quickly become disadvantageous without support, it made real good airsoft from the demo run! Plenty of team work, a tonne of plastic went down and smiles all around; despite the sweltering heat we had that day!

[emergencychimp]

Re: Considering starting first airsoft CQB site in Suffolk...

Looks interesting, especially as there is a real lack of sites in Suffolk (2 main ones). I would head over there to test it out and I am sure I could muster a few people to come with me.

[loki7491]

Re: Considering starting first airsoft CQB site in Suffolk...

Do yourself a favour and disconnect from the the "airsoft PLAYER" mindset and get into the "airsoft PROVIDER" mindset. It will not be cheap to start and you could take an initial loss until things pick up.

First things first:
Can you rent / lease the site - if that is a NO then you are scuppered from the get go (at that venue at least)
Assume they will rent you the site - how much will it be? Will be a monthly bill or can you pay per use with a minimum guaranteed income?

We pay a set rent per use for our site. If we have 60 players, great. If we have 4 players, we are in debt.

How many players can you accommodate? I don't mean rammed in, maximum profit, RyanAir style... how many can you comfortably accomodate in the safe zone and gaming area so it will be a good day and get you return customers. You need return customers as they will be your bread and butter.

If you can accomodate 30 players @ £30 each for green fees, that is £900 per day income. Now the crappy bit..... outgoings.

Site rent
Food
Marshal wages (initially you will get volunteers, but that will wear thin after a while)
Public liability insurance
Facilities (portaloo hire / maintenance)
Fuel for generator
Safety netting the perimeter
Making the site clean and safe (volunteer work party in exchange for free game days?)
Props and objectives
Site maintenance (broken door repairs etc)
Making the safe zone welcoming (lights etc)

Is the site on the grid? will you have electricity? will that cost be in the rent or additional?

You will need to do a risk assessment - or copy and paste mine There is no blackmagic to them but they seem to scare many people.

Firstaiders - and kits - Fireextinguishers are not cheap either... i am assuming you will be using pyro on site.

Not trying to put you off or anything, but we went through all of this before we opened in January so it still pretty fresh in my head. Don't forget the costs of continual improvement. The worst this you can do as a site is rest on your laurels. Keep it new so even regular player. are kept on their toes.

Hope i have not put a dampner on things, but it is better to go in with both eyes firmly wide open. If finances are a little tight, make your plans known to all and sundry, that way they will support you and put up with poor conditions in the knowledge that better things are on their way. Do not buy a Bentley in the first frew months of opening up.... people will want to see their fees recycled into the site!!!

Good luck and feel free to pick my brain - it won't take too ling

[Grounded_Pilot]

Re: Considering starting first airsoft CQB site in Suffolk...

I think it'll be easier to add comments after each section :P

Do yourself a favour and disconnect from the the "airsoft PLAYER" mindset and get into the "airsoft PROVIDER" mindset. It will not be cheap to start and you could take an initial loss until things pick up.

Initially I approached the site as a player to see if they'd run it... but the idea of taking it over crept into my mind and now I can't shake it :p As for startup fees, it's gonna be hell... yes. However the support is huge for this place from the tester. I hope to save cash short-term in my set-up by having a limited number of hire rifles. Once I am approaching take-off velocity I'll get more in!

First things first:
Can you rent / lease the site - if that is a NO then you are scuppered from the get go (at that venue at least)
Assume they will rent you the site - how much will it be? Will be a monthly bill or can you pay per use with a minimum guaranteed income?

We pay a set rent per use for our site. If we have 60 players, great. If we have 4 players, we are in debt.

I have already made a great rapport with the land owner, and rented it out once before for a pilot event! The initial rental was only £75, including costs to run. However we have spoken about making it as low as £50 per day's use. Mainly because the size of the site is nothing HUGE, but sufficient for 20-30 players!

How many players can you accommodate? I don't mean rammed in, maximum profit, RyanAir style... how many can you comfortably accomodate in the safe zone and gaming area so it will be a good day and get you return customers. You need return customers as they will be your bread and butter.

If you can accomodate 30 players @ £30 each for green fees, that is £900 per day income. Now the crappy bit..... outgoings.

The pilot event revealed with 20 players, the games were fine. But many commented that maybe 25-30 would be a perfect combination between players and cover.

Site rent £50-£75
Food Not on site. The karting track (100m down the runway) has a cafe and ending machines on-site, land and karting track owner also considering offering reduced rates between the skirmish site customers and the cafe. But a packed lunch would be highly recommended!
Marshal wages (initially you will get volunteers, but that will wear thin after a while) Hope to run a "marshal for skirmishes" scheme. Many of the marshals will be close friends/part of my team or family. All will be given basic training prior to the event.
Public liability insurance PLI and Employers liability is in process for quotes. I expect around £800 p/a. or about £70 a month.
Facilities (portaloo hire / maintenance) One big issues was toilet facilities. I am considering portaloo hire, or simply instructing players to use the go-karting facilities. (Assuming their co-operation)
Fuel for generator Covered under site rental
Safety netting the perimeter This has not crossed my mind if I am totally honest! The majority of the site is surrounded by 12ft+ verges, and to the right hand side of the site is merely fields for as far as the eye can see (good ol' Suffolk!)
Making the site clean and safe (volunteer work party in exchange for free game days?) The site is simply sweep-up-able, being mainly concrete and cabins. Every day before gaming I intend to check all structures for damages prior to the event.
Props and objectives I have a list of props required, such as new Flags, stopwatches, targets and possibly velcro team markers.
Site maintenance (broken door repairs etc) Significantly difficult to forecast things like this. The site is built out of new and used parts so damaged doors may just be removed and used else where or nailed in place.
Making the safe zone welcoming (lights etc) The safe zone, that inflates to full size, can accommodate roughly 15-20 players. This is not hugely ideal at current, however I hope to set up a canopy out side of it for extra, covered space.

Is the site on the grid? will you have electricity? will that cost be in the rent or additional?

You will need to do a risk assessment - or copy and paste mine There is no blackmagic to them but they seem to scare many people.

Firstaiders - and kits - Fireextinguishers are not cheap either... i am assuming you will be using pyro on site.

The site is powered by a generator, which supplies electricity to the safezone, a container containing the PA system and other things, and also the fill the safe zone with air.
A risk assessment is already complete. The site is currently used as a Laser Tag arena. The risk assessment was merely modified to include projectile firing of BBs, and the use of personally owned gear and rifles.

First aid is also covered (as per insurance requirements). I am taking an HSE recognised business first-aider course. Also have 2 marshals with correct first aid.

Not trying to put you off or anything, but we went through all of this before we opened in January so it still pretty fresh in my head. Don't forget the costs of continual improvement. The worst this you can do as a site is rest on your laurels. Keep it new so even regular player. are kept on their toes.

Hope i have not put a dampner on things, but it is better to go in with both eyes firmly wide open. If finances are a little tight, make your plans known to all and sundry, that way they will support you and put up with poor conditions in the knowledge that better things are on their way. Do not buy a Bentley in the first frew months of opening up.... people will want to see their fees recycled into the site!!!

Good luck and feel free to pick my brain - it won't take too ling

I am grateful for your comments. It really made me think and test my preparation... and highlighted some areas that need attention. I have also calculated costs for other loose ends, such as car expenses and insurances. SO FAR, it seems viable and workable! Although, I am under no illusions... it's gonna be funking difficult!

(But at least I am the closest to getting CQB in Suffolk yet! I don't intend to back down!)

[loki7491]

Re: Considering starting first airsoft CQB site in Suffolk...

Excellent stuff.

With your rent as low as that there is no real reason why it cannot be a success.

Our portaloo cost £93 per calendar month. We only run 2 weekends a month so it gets cleaned and restocked every 2 weeks. We can have it done more regularly than that but there is no point as the guy will come out to an empty toilet.

[Grounded_Pilot]

Re: Considering starting first airsoft CQB site in Suffolk...

Time will tell how it runs! Thanks for your comments, it's nice to taste a bit of reality not just hype :p

Also, just realised it's "Vending machines" not "Ending machines" in the above post.

[howie4305]

Re: Considering starting first airsoft CQB site in Suffolk...

I went along to the first skirmish. We all had a great time.
Thanks for making it happen chap
Steve

[GhostWolf]

Re: Considering starting first airsoft CQB site in Suffolk...

Great time enjoyed, looking forward to more.

[Curly68]

Re: Considering starting first airsoft CQB site in Suffolk...

I have seen those pics before and thought they looked good then. It's a fair way to travel for my son and I but we would come and give it a go for sure. We only play once a month at FilmSim events, not skirmish but this is slightly different to what we are used to as well.
Best of luck with it.

[Grounded_Pilot]

Re: Considering starting first airsoft CQB site in Suffolk...

I see. You're not much closer to Ellough/Beccles than you are to Petborough's Urban Assault. They're about the only competition. A very nice ex-RAF base, complete with tanks!

However their distance is just too far, especially for those on the coast... which is why I hope to cater to the local area as a supplement to the normal woodland diet, which we seem to get plenty of in East Anglia.

[The Airsoft Lad]

Re: Considering starting first airsoft CQB site in Suffolk...

Site looks good but I too also think that from the pictures it looks a bit small, I guess the games played there would be a bit more like some American ones that bare a slight resemblance in tactics and game-pace as paintball (blasphemy on an airsoft forum, i know)

I still wish that Folkestone race-course had been changed into an airsoft site before the War and Peace show got hold of it.
It shut a few years ago and has been sitting there waiting to become an awesome airsoft skirmish


what sort of game style did you play at this site?

[Grounded_Pilot]

Re: Considering starting first airsoft CQB site in Suffolk...

Site looks good but I too also think that from the pictures it looks a bit small, I guess the games played there would be a bit more like some American ones that bare a slight resemblance in tactics and game-pace as paintball (blasphemy on an airsoft forum, i know)

I still wish that Folkestone race-course had been changed into an airsoft site before the War and Peace show got hold of it.
It shut a few years ago and has been sitting there waiting to become an awesome airsoft skirmish


what sort of game style did you play at this site?

I guess you could say it had the same sort of speed and movements as paint ball. Except you saw more tactics than the average paintball site would see.

-Players with well tuned rifles (for playing woodland, seeing as that's all there is to play here) often sat back to defend their objective while covering the players advancing.
-Advancing players (people making the most of the CQB to use their pistols and shotguns that see little/no use in woodland) would use strategy to assault the enemy/neutral objectives.

The gaming was rather tense. As marshal, I only played one game at the end of the day with a tri-shotgun. I loved it, but hell you have to take risks to reap the rewards. But knowing you have x number of enemies within 200m of you at the spawn sites... it's terrifying! Gets the blood pumping and after you've taken a few hits from being over-cautious, you generally start going crazy, taking more chances, getting shot more, but also performing some wonderful kills.

Saw one chap, 19 years old, take out 4 people in 10 seconds with a stock Cyma G18c. One surrendered and hosed on full auto. Was marvelous to watch.

[Tom Andrews]

Re: Considering starting first airsoft CQB site in Suffolk...

Just like Loki not wanting to put a downer on your idea, it is a bit small from the photos. If thats all there is then players will become bored after a while. Putting in walls, passageways, choke points etc that are strong enough to take the hurly burly of players bouncing into them and yet light enough to move around every month or so would help keep it fresh for players.

If there is more land available then it won't be a problem.