Fight For The Future Of British Airsoft!

[SRB]

Re: Fight For The Future Of British Airsoft!

Feel free to use it my friend

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[roryrocker13]

Re: Fight For The Future Of British Airsoft!

Also for the record with the argument that seems to be going on with the power of BB's and the power BB a younger person can take, I am 16 which isnt much older than 14 lol. I have been airsofting at skirmish sites since I was 12, my site has what I would regard as a higher FPS limit (370 AEGs 420 DMR's and 500 bolt action) and we have no minimum engagement, I have been shot point blank more times than I can count and personally I never have an issue with it, I wear goggles and a gum shield and although some shots might come keen (getting shot clean in the lip) at worst it might just make your eyes water, I have never had an issue with getting shot up the sting only lasts a couple of seconds.

[SRB]

Re: Fight For The Future Of British Airsoft!

It concerns me most that we could sleep walk into criminalising tens of thousands of people for no good reason and potentially ruining someone's life with a criminal record for a firearms offence for a very trivial matter which has never really caused any real issue

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[jaffers]

Re: Fight For The Future Of British Airsoft!

How can this go to vote on the 14th when it has not even been announced publicly to the Airsoft trade and community? Why is this one pompous bell end having such a quick negative effect on the trade that could potentially ruin people's livelihoods? I have seen a certain sniper on Tube giving links on how to object to this but it all seems long winded. Is there an online petition that you can do quickly without writing or is this the most effective way of trying to stop these killjoys?

[colinjallen]

Re: Fight For The Future Of British Airsoft!

Amendments to bills do not have to be announced to anyone; they are an internal matter for Parliament.

An online petition will have no impact whatever; the only way to try to prevent this amendment being passed is to follow the advice and write persuasively, calmly and intelligently to members of the House.

I have now spoken with the few members of the Lords that I know personally; hopefully, if enough of us make contact we can stop this amendment.

[ewan_stockwell]

Re: Fight For The Future Of British Airsoft!

this is a copy from the "Lobbying for UK Airsoft" facebook page, this isn't my post it's Sam Flinders post, this is a response to a email Sam sent to Bill Bradshaw.
"Dear Sam,
Thank you for writing. On Wednesday 14th September is the first day in Committee of the above Bill. It is most unlikely that there will be any voting at this stage. Usually at Committee Stage all amendments are withdrawn. Depending on the answer given by the Minister at Committee Stage a Peer may decide to re-table the amendment at Report Stage when there might be a vote but only if Lord Shrewsbury puts down his amendment and presses the matter to a Division. That will be at some stage in the future.
You can imagine that I know nothing about Airsoft . If you want to explain your concerns to me I will try to understand and it is possible I could make your points personally to Lord Shrewsbury. I would not speak in debate unless I was conversant with the subject. If you want to talk here or in the House of Lords I would be happy to see you.. My phone number at home is XXXXX XXXXXX. I shall not be in the House until October as I have had a problem with my leg.
Yours sincerely, Bill Bradshaw."

looks like some good new, once again all credit goes to Sam for getting us a ally!

[SRB]

Re: Fight For The Future Of British Airsoft!

How can this go to vote on the 14th when it has not even been announced publicly to the Airsoft trade and community? Why is this one pompous bell end having such a quick negative effect on the trade that could potentially ruin people's livelihoods? I have seen a certain sniper on Tube giving links on how to object to this but it all seems long winded. Is there an online petition that you can do quickly without writing or is this the most effective way of trying to stop these killjoys?

Can we please refrain from throwing insults around, where they could quite easily be seen by those they refer to, which has no benefit to our cause whatsover. If that's how you feel fine, I'm sure you are not alone, but please express so in private. Sorry to sound like said killjoys but how does it contribute in this matter?

Sadly writing and taking time to do so eloquently is the most effective means of dealing with this. Yes that will require you to take time out of your life to do so, I spent 3 hours of my time yesterday doing just that.

It is the only way we can stand any chance of countering the opposing argument, sadly spending just 60 seconds on a petition just won't cut it.

Secondly if we are just 60,000 in number, even if every airsoft player signs it, we are still 40,000 signatures shirt of the threshold that would force this discussion in parliament. Even if we did reach 100,000 signatories it may be an own goal as we lack sufficient allies in parliament that could aid this discussion in a way that is beneficial to us.


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[SRB]

Re: Fight For The Future Of British Airsoft!

this is a copy from the "Lobbying for UK Airsoft" facebook page, this isn't my post it's Sam Flinders post, this is a response to a email Sam sent to Bill Bradshaw.
"Dear Sam,
Thank you for writing. On Wednesday 14th September is the first day in Committee of the above Bill. It is most unlikely that there will be any voting at this stage. Usually at Committee Stage all amendments are withdrawn. Depending on the answer given by the Minister at Committee Stage a Peer may decide to re-table the amendment at Report Stage when there might be a vote but only if Lord Shrewsbury puts down his amendment and presses the matter to a Division. That will be at some stage in the future.
You can imagine that I know nothing about Airsoft . If you want to explain your concerns to me I will try to understand and it is possible I could make your points personally to Lord Shrewsbury. I would not speak in debate unless I was conversant with the subject. If you want to talk here or in the House of Lords I would be happy to see you.. My phone number at home is XXXXX XXXXXX. I shall not be in the House until October as I have had a problem with my leg.
Yours sincerely, Bill Bradshaw."

looks like some good new, once again all credit goes to Sam for getting us a ally!

Cracking effort sam!



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[Shizbazki]

Re: Fight For The Future Of British Airsoft!

Hhmmm has anyone actually read the legislation and the bill at length to understand it? as knowledge is power?

TL:DR – I think as Airsofters we are well covered, so chill the f**k out! The new Bill proposed for the 14-09-16 might be better for Airsoft really, hint, hint, the bill also proposes a new section to the Firearms Act 1968, S.57A
But read on to learn more of what I mean?

So upon seeing the news on several forum sites about the up and coming Policing and Crime Bill due to be talked over in the House of Lords on 14-09-16 its seemed that the sport of airsoft is to be doomed if you take the information from UKAPU, UKARA et al, however as some have pointed out that Lord Shrewsbury is doing this for political reasons, one cannot for one second think that maybe UKAPU might have their own political agendas other than being the saving grace of Airsoft it wants to be seen as.
UKAPU have produced a nice poster where they have a step by step, “What you can do to help”
1. Write an angry letter to a Lord on their “LORDS HIT LIST”;
2. That the GTA will be the only ones to benefit, boycott all GTA members who support the bill and
3. JOIN UKAPU.
Link to the reference above:
http://www.ukapu.org.uk/saveairsoft/
Point 1 with the HIT LIST sounded a bit unprofessional to me and started my scepticism, Point 2 GTA boycott fine I agree with that, you don’t shop at a place that is against your beliefs, but point 3 “JOIN UKAPU” got me thinking, is this more for UKAPUs own political reasons? I noticed that to be a UKAPU Silver or Gold member they want your money (£5 for silver, £10 for gold), Bronze is free for a year but after that you have to upgrade up.
On the poster UKAPU made they mention the Airsoft Trade Body, no internet footprint, all Google searches lead back to UKAPU, UKARA is also on the poster but their website make no mention of the new bill, albeit their website is hardly the best.

I have always learned to be quite sceptical and tend to look to the actual paperwork, for those of you that don’t know, Acts and Bills can be written in a very archaic manner that’s basically means you need to break it down to understand it.
So with that I decided to go to the House of Lords website and look up the Policing and Crime Bill proposal as well as refer to the original Firearms Act 1968 specifically S57 (and 57A which doesn’t exist, yet! But if this Bill passes it will)

So lets start with the crux of the matter, the Firearms Act 1968, S.57 (1):
In this Act, the expression “firearm” means a lethal barrelled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged and includes—
(a) any prohibited weapon, whether it is such a lethal weapon as aforesaid or not; and
(b ) any component part of such a lethal or prohibited weapon; and
(c ) any accessory to any such weapon designed or adapted to diminish the noise or flash caused by firing the weapon; and so much of section 1 of this Act as excludes any description of firearm from the category of firearms to which that section applies shall be construed as also excluding component parts of, and accessories to, firearms of that description.
They want to change the wording of Firearms Act 1968, S.57 (1), note that the new additional change is highlighted in bold to this:
In this Act, the expression “firearm” means—
(a) a lethal barrelled weapon (see subsection (1B));
(b ) a prohibited weapon;
(c ) a relevant component part in relation to a lethal barrelled weapon or a prohibited weapon (see subsection (1D));
(d) an accessory to a lethal barrelled weapon or a prohibited weapon where the accessory is designed or adapted to diminish the noise or flash caused by firing the weapon.

You will notice that at the end of S.57 (1) (a) has the “see subsection (1B))”
Subsection 1B states:
“(1B) In subsection (1)(a), “lethal barrelled weapon” means a barrelled
weapon of any description from which a shot, bullet or other missile,
with kinetic energy of more than one joule at the muzzle of the weapon,
can be discharged.”

And this is where we’re getting our knickers in a twist, before it used to state that a “lethal barrelled weapon” means a barrelled weapon of any description from which a shot, bullet or other missile. This could be anything from a shotgun to a pipe launching out a potato etc. Now it has the addition of “with kinetic energy of more than one joule at the muzzle of the weapon, can be discharged.” So adds a specific muzzle velocity too.
So reading it like this means it can be construed that any barrelled weapon which discharges a shot etc with more than 1 joule of energy will be made illegal overnight and that all airsofters up and down the UK should be banged up, so far UKAPU have been correct and have used this to try and gain more members to sign up in apparently the “GOOD FIGHT”.
BUT!!!!
If you were to go to the Firearms Act 1968 and check through the Act as it currently stands, it goes through all its sections numerically occasionally adding the odd “A”, “B”, “C” to certain sections, refer to Section 30 of the Firearms Act 1968 which has Sections 30A, 30B, 30C and 30D.
Section 57 goes straight to Section 58 as expected, however the new Bill proposed for the 14-09-16 has a line stating:
“Subsection (1) is subject to section 57A (exception for airsoft guns).”

Basically, the new Bill wants to add a part specifically for us, S.57A which (does not yet exist) is a whole new proposed section to the Firearms Act 1968 which states:
57A Exception for airsoft guns
(1) An “airsoft gun” is not to be regarded as a firearm for the purposes of this Act.
(2) An “airsoft gun” is a barrelled weapon of any description from which only a small plastic missile, with kinetic energy at the muzzle of the weapon that does not exceed the permitted level, can be discharged.
(3) “Small plastic missile” means a missile that—
(a) is made wholly or partly from plastics, and
(b ) does not exceed 6 millimetres in diameter.
(4) The permitted kinetic energy level is—
(a) in the case of a weapon which is designed or adapted so that two or more missiles can be discharged successively without repeated pressure on the trigger, 1.3 joules;
(b ) in any other case, 2.5 joules.”

This above means that either UKAPU have only read a small part of the new bill and stopped reading or they want more members, Section 57 is so specific to Airsoft guns NOT being regarded as firearms for this Act is unreal, in fact the way S.57A, Paragraph 4, line b - is written technically means that Full Autos can go up to 1.3J or about 372FPS using .20g BBs, Semi Auto DMRs and Bolt Actions can legally go up to 515FPS on .20g BBs. This is why we should use joules instead of FPS and weights to measure our guns.

This means that if this Bill passes, nothing for Airsofters will change, I think the Airsoft community have misinterpreted Air Weapons such as Air Rifles and Pistols with Airsoft Guns. Frankly the Bill has included S.57A to try and bring the Firearms Act 1968 up to date to formally recognise Airsoft Guns under the Act but clarifies that Airsoft Guns are NOT firearms.
For those of you fearing that Police would come to Airsosft Sites and Chrono everyone en masse, I would say don’t woryy, Police have better things to do and would risk alienating Airsoft Players, of which a sizeable portion are Police Officers themselves.
References:
1.
Firearms Act 1968
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27/section/57
Accessed 03-09-16

2.
Policing and Crime Bill 2015-16 to 2016-17, HL Bill 55 dated 14-06-16, Las accessed on 03-09-16
http://www.publications.parliament.u...0055/17055.pdf
Specifically referring to Page 137, Part 6 – Firearms, Paragraph 111 Firearms Act 1968: meaning of “firearm” etc

[colinjallen]

Re: Fight For The Future Of British Airsoft!

Shizbazki,

Lord Shrewsbury's amendment aims to remove the airsoft exemption from the bill; that is the issue. Any automatic airsoft weapon shooting at greater than 1j would be a section 5 firearm.

Maybe YOU should check the facts before posting.

[roryrocker13]

Re: Fight For The Future Of British Airsoft!

Also guys just to reiterate what I said on the other post. DO NOT send an "angry letter to the hit list" like shiz said! Lords are the ones who decide if it is passed or not so we need them on our side. Infact like colin said he needs to check the facts because on UKAPU's page it specifically says keep the letter clean and also it says "complain to shrewsburry and GTA" NOT complain to the only people that are able to help you!

[Bryan Mills]

Re: Fight For The Future Of British Airsoft!

No need to send any letters anymore.

The war is over. Keep an eye on social media for the official statement.

[ewan_stockwell]

Re: Fight For The Future Of British Airsoft!

you are right the 1.3/2.5 joule limit for airsoft guns is in the current proposed act but lord shewsbury is trying to remove this exception

- - - Updated - - -

Hhmmm has anyone actually read the legislation and the bill at length to understand it? as knowledge is power?

TL:DR – I think as Airsofters we are well covered, so chill the f**k out! The new Bill proposed for the 14-09-16 might be better for Airsoft really, hint, hint, the bill also proposes a new section to the Firearms Act 1968, S.57A
But read on to learn more of what I mean?

So upon seeing the news on several forum sites about the up and coming Policing and Crime Bill due to be talked over in the House of Lords on 14-09-16 its seemed that the sport of airsoft is to be doomed if you take the information from UKAPU, UKARA et al, however as some have pointed out that Lord Shrewsbury is doing this for political reasons, one cannot for one second think that maybe UKAPU might have their own political agendas other than being the saving grace of Airsoft it wants to be seen as.
UKAPU have produced a nice poster where they have a step by step, “What you can do to help”
1. Write an angry letter to a Lord on their “LORDS HIT LIST”;
2. That the GTA will be the only ones to benefit, boycott all GTA members who support the bill and
3. JOIN UKAPU.
Link to the reference above:
http://www.ukapu.org.uk/saveairsoft/
Point 1 with the HIT LIST sounded a bit unprofessional to me and started my scepticism, Point 2 GTA boycott fine I agree with that, you don’t shop at a place that is against your beliefs, but point 3 “JOIN UKAPU” got me thinking, is this more for UKAPUs own political reasons? I noticed that to be a UKAPU Silver or Gold member they want your money (£5 for silver, £10 for gold), Bronze is free for a year but after that you have to upgrade up.
On the poster UKAPU made they mention the Airsoft Trade Body, no internet footprint, all Google searches lead back to UKAPU, UKARA is also on the poster but their website make no mention of the new bill, albeit their website is hardly the best.

I have always learned to be quite sceptical and tend to look to the actual paperwork, for those of you that don’t know, Acts and Bills can be written in a very archaic manner that’s basically means you need to break it down to understand it.
So with that I decided to go to the House of Lords website and look up the Policing and Crime Bill proposal as well as refer to the original Firearms Act 1968 specifically S57 (and 57A which doesn’t exist, yet! But if this Bill passes it will)

So lets start with the crux of the matter, the Firearms Act 1968, S.57 (1):
In this Act, the expression “firearm” means a lethal barrelled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged and includes—
(a) any prohibited weapon, whether it is such a lethal weapon as aforesaid or not; and
(b ) any component part of such a lethal or prohibited weapon; and
(c ) any accessory to any such weapon designed or adapted to diminish the noise or flash caused by firing the weapon; and so much of section 1 of this Act as excludes any description of firearm from the category of firearms to which that section applies shall be construed as also excluding component parts of, and accessories to, firearms of that description.
They want to change the wording of Firearms Act 1968, S.57 (1), note that the new additional change is highlighted in bold to this:
In this Act, the expression “firearm” means—
(a) a lethal barrelled weapon (see subsection (1B));
(b ) a prohibited weapon;
(c ) a relevant component part in relation to a lethal barrelled weapon or a prohibited weapon (see subsection (1D));
(d) an accessory to a lethal barrelled weapon or a prohibited weapon where the accessory is designed or adapted to diminish the noise or flash caused by firing the weapon.

You will notice that at the end of S.57 (1) (a) has the “see subsection (1B))”
Subsection 1B states:
“(1B) In subsection (1)(a), “lethal barrelled weapon” means a barrelled
weapon of any description from which a shot, bullet or other missile,
with kinetic energy of more than one joule at the muzzle of the weapon,
can be discharged.”

And this is where we’re getting our knickers in a twist, before it used to state that a “lethal barrelled weapon” means a barrelled weapon of any description from which a shot, bullet or other missile. This could be anything from a shotgun to a pipe launching out a potato etc. Now it has the addition of “with kinetic energy of more than one joule at the muzzle of the weapon, can be discharged.” So adds a specific muzzle velocity too.
So reading it like this means it can be construed that any barrelled weapon which discharges a shot etc with more than 1 joule of energy will be made illegal overnight and that all airsofters up and down the UK should be banged up, so far UKAPU have been correct and have used this to try and gain more members to sign up in apparently the “GOOD FIGHT”.
BUT!!!!
If you were to go to the Firearms Act 1968 and check through the Act as it currently stands, it goes through all its sections numerically occasionally adding the odd “A”, “B”, “C” to certain sections, refer to Section 30 of the Firearms Act 1968 which has Sections 30A, 30B, 30C and 30D.
Section 57 goes straight to Section 58 as expected, however the new Bill proposed for the 14-09-16 has a line stating:
“Subsection (1) is subject to section 57A (exception for airsoft guns).”

Basically, the new Bill wants to add a part specifically for us, S.57A which (does not yet exist) is a whole new proposed section to the Firearms Act 1968 which states:
57A Exception for airsoft guns
(1) An “airsoft gun” is not to be regarded as a firearm for the purposes of this Act.
(2) An “airsoft gun” is a barrelled weapon of any description from which only a small plastic missile, with kinetic energy at the muzzle of the weapon that does not exceed the permitted level, can be discharged.
(3) “Small plastic missile” means a missile that—
(a) is made wholly or partly from plastics, and
(b ) does not exceed 6 millimetres in diameter.
(4) The permitted kinetic energy level is—
(a) in the case of a weapon which is designed or adapted so that two or more missiles can be discharged successively without repeated pressure on the trigger, 1.3 joules;
(b ) in any other case, 2.5 joules.”

This above means that either UKAPU have only read a small part of the new bill and stopped reading or they want more members, Section 57 is so specific to Airsoft guns NOT being regarded as firearms for this Act is unreal, in fact the way S.57A, Paragraph 4, line b - is written technically means that Full Autos can go up to 1.3J or about 372FPS using .20g BBs, Semi Auto DMRs and Bolt Actions can legally go up to 515FPS on .20g BBs. This is why we should use joules instead of FPS and weights to measure our guns.

This means that if this Bill passes, nothing for Airsofters will change, I think the Airsoft community have misinterpreted Air Weapons such as Air Rifles and Pistols with Airsoft Guns. Frankly the Bill has included S.57A to try and bring the Firearms Act 1968 up to date to formally recognise Airsoft Guns under the Act but clarifies that Airsoft Guns are NOT firearms.
For those of you fearing that Police would come to Airsosft Sites and Chrono everyone en masse, I would say don’t woryy, Police have better things to do and would risk alienating Airsoft Players, of which a sizeable portion are Police Officers themselves.
References:
1.
Firearms Act 1968
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27/section/57
Accessed 03-09-16

2.
Policing and Crime Bill 2015-16 to 2016-17, HL Bill 55 dated 14-06-16, Las accessed on 03-09-16
http://www.publications.parliament.u...0055/17055.pdf
Specifically referring to Page 137, Part 6 – Firearms, Paragraph 111 Firearms Act 1968: meaning of “firearm” etc

for anyone still currently a little confused about he whole situation here is a small summary: under current law their is no power limit you as they don't define what a "lethally barrelled weapon" so under the current law you can have a 700 pfs aeg. the police crime bill 2016-2017 hasn't been passed but it makes any barreled weapon that shoots over 1 joule a air rifle (which must be semi only or its a section 5 firearm which is a real ak47!) but their is a 1.3 full auto/2.5 semi auto joule limit for airsof guns. lord shewsbury is trying to amend the proposed police crime bill and remove the 1.3/2.5 joule airsoft exception which would make any semi auto gun over 1 joule a air rifle and any full auto gun over 1 joule a section 5 firearm (a really illegal gun). also as a quick note that not many people have brought up the 1.3/2.5 joule limit only applies to airsoft guns that shoot 6mm bb's so if the new bill was passed with no modification from shewsbury people who use 8mm bb's that shoot over 1 joule would also be screwed

[Bryan Mills]

Re: Fight For The Future Of British Airsoft!

Watch social media.

He has withdrawn his motion. That particular skirmish is over before the start whistle was officially blown.

[MrMcG]

Re: Fight For The Future Of British Airsoft!

Watch social media.

He has withdrawn his motion. That particular skirmish is over before the start whistle was officially blown.

Shrewsbury has withdrawn his motion?

Is that true