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IMPORTANT correspondence with MP'S and Lord's
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roryrocker13
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#16
1 September, 2016, 23:47
Re: IMPORTANT correspondence with MA'S and Lord's
Wow I didnt realize he has done this kind of thing before. I am kind of more worried now that its happened to others!
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Hunter512
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#17
1 September, 2016, 23:59
Re: IMPORTANT correspondence with MA'S and Lord's
Back in the VCRB days we tried to get support from the UK shooting community.....
The response the airsofters got was basically "yeah, cool story bro. F**K off".
Originally posted by
tackle
For the haters who feel that bamf, & others, are picking on you, GROW THE FUCK UP, their actually trying to stop you destroying our sport or having even more draconian measures foisted upon us.
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Westie
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#18
2 September, 2016, 00:00
Re: IMPORTANT correspondence with MA'S and Lord's
Originally posted by
SRB
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Doing my research into this I've gotten the impression this is entirely Lord Shrewsbury acting within his remit as a member of the House of Lords not as president of the GTA, I am really eager to understand why though, if he can be bought on side though, we may actually see some positive change out of this, that hopefully puts an end to the ongoing scrutiny of airsoft at least for a little while, the more times we can maintain a position that supports or continues the status quo one way or another, will help us defend airsoft in furure to a point where we are just accepted and left alone, if we continue to politely reason with and better educate the powers that be. It will buy us more time to allow the hobby to continue to grow, hopefully to a point where in years to come, we will be less of a fringe activity and better understood. With a much greater number of players to help stand our ground. As well as increasing our contribution to the economy as more sites and shops open to support a steady rise in demand.
I'd like to refer you to one of the first pieces of communication that a supporter of UKAPU received where he indicated he was "acting on the advice" of the Gun Trade Association.
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MrMcG
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#19
2 September, 2016, 00:05
Re: IMPORTANT correspondence with MA'S and Lord's
Saw this posted on the ukapu fb page -
I ended up emailing him to ask why he's put forward this amendment (In a very civilized manner) he replied within an hour saying he believes that all air-powered guns should be set to the same velocity limitations. This includes all air-weapons and unfortunately our airsoft guns. He thinks that it's inappropriate for airsoft weapons to have an exception to higher velocities than regular air-powered weapons without being deemed as a firearm which sounds very reasonable however what he hasn't taken into perspective is the actual projectiles being used (plastic bb's instead of metal pellets) which makes all the difference. However, in his eyes, it seems that airguns are airguns no matter the projectile. He has every right to put forward this amendment and I believe as an airsoft community we shouldn't be too rash as our reputation is at stake here if anyone gets too angry about this. After a few more emails with him, he himself said he had very little faith that the amendment would be passed. At the end of the day, we have very little power (excuse the joke) in this whole situation so the most we can do is stay united as a community through this issue as its resolved.
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Hunter512
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#20
2 September, 2016, 00:07
Re: IMPORTANT correspondence with MA'S and Lord's
any reason he is ignoring the official police reccomendations, supported by forensics etc?
Also at the risk of being a bit dickish, he's hardly likely to say say "yup I was totally wrong but oh damn, the amandment's gonna pass anyway, oops, my bad"
Originally posted by
tackle
For the haters who feel that bamf, & others, are picking on you, GROW THE FUCK UP, their actually trying to stop you destroying our sport or having even more draconian measures foisted upon us.
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twolanewill
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#21
2 September, 2016, 08:15
Re: IMPORTANT correspondence with MA'S and Lord's
I feel that our sport is always casted under the spotlight of the few spoil for the many whether it be silly emails or brandishing a gun in public it is what it is. However i feel that what has been said to Lord Shrewsbury is plenty and no more need be said to the guy, however it is going to be a sit down and wait and see jobbby. Lets enjoy what we have now and see what the future holds, also i don't see a way that the police can regulate or enforce this but lets wait and see might all fall through?
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W0lf
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#22
2 September, 2016, 08:15
Re: IMPORTANT correspondence with MA'S and Lord's
I think you're all being sucked in my how pleasant he's being...
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colinjallen
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#23
2 September, 2016, 08:42
Re: IMPORTANT correspondence with MA'S and Lord's
Far from being a case of wait and see, this is one occasion when we do need to be lobbying hard to ensure that this amendment is not passed. However, this should not be done with threats or any form of aggressive language; reasoned argument is the only way forward, which is what UKAPU are doing.
As to how the police would enforce this, that would be be very simple.
One bright summer's day a small group of police roll up at an airsoft site and demand that all the weapons be chrono'd with them watching. Joe Airsofter chrono'd his green gas powered AK at 08:30 and it was shooting at 0.95J. Unfortunately, the temperature has risen somewhat and it now chrono's at 1.03J; oops, Joe Airsofter is now in illegal possession of a Section 5 firearm, an offence which carries a maximum sentence of 10 years. Joe Airsofter is hauled off to the local nick.
In the safe zone, one of the officers notices a "for sale" table containing, among other items, Fred Airsofter's old AEG. This is also chrono'd and found to be at 1.04J. Fred Airsofter is arrested for being in "possession for sale or transfer of an unauthorised firearm"; he is also arrested, is convicted and ends up serving life.
Those are the possible implications of this amendment, which would be simple for the police to enforce.
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twolanewill
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#24
2 September, 2016, 08:54
Re: IMPORTANT correspondence with MA'S and Lord's
Originally posted by
colinjallen
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Far from being a case of wait and see, this is one occasion when we do need to be lobbying hard to ensure that this amendment is not passed. However, this should not be done with threats or any form of aggressive language; reasoned argument is the only way forward, which is what UKAPU are doing.
As to how the police would enforce this, that would be be very simple.
One bright summer's day a small group of police roll up at an airsoft site and demand that all the weapons be chrono'd with them watching. Joe Airsofter chrono'd his green gas powered AK at 08:30 and it was shooting at 0.95J. Unfortunately, the temperature has risen somewhat and it now chrono's at 1.03J; oops, Joe Airsofter is now in illegal possession of a Section 5 firearm, an offence which carries a maximum sentence of 10 years. Joe Airsofter is hauled off to the local nick.
In the safe zone, one of the officers notices a "for sale" table containing, among other items, Fred Airsofter's old AEG. This is also chrono'd and found to be at 1.04J. Fred Airsofter is arrested for being in "possession for sale or transfer of an unauthorised firearm"; he is also arrested, is convicted and ends up serving life.
Those are the possible implications of this amendment, which would be simple for the police to enforce.
Based on what you have said yes it could be that simple, however whats to say the site doesnt get made .4g bbs to drop the fps.. i mean one are the old bill really going to be that bothered to waste time and money on a possible arrest, no theyre not they cant even convict the simplest of crimes and the CPS wont be interested.
This ruleing would therefore need to have a =/-% as temperature is a variable as is bb weight, if you have a systema just swap out the cylinder put suppressor on... there are too many variables. or what ifs.
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Westie
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#25
2 September, 2016, 09:08
Re: IMPORTANT correspondence with MA'S and Lord's
Originally posted by
colinjallen
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Far from being a case of wait and see, this is one occasion when we do need to be lobbying hard to ensure that this amendment is not passed. However, this should not be done with threats or any form of aggressive language; reasoned argument is the only way forward, which is what UKAPU are doing.
As to how the police would enforce this, that would be be very simple.
One bright summer's day a small group of police roll up at an airsoft site and demand that all the weapons be chrono'd with them watching. Joe Airsofter chrono'd his green gas powered AK at 08:30 and it was shooting at 0.95J. Unfortunately, the temperature has risen somewhat and it now chrono's at 1.03J; oops, Joe Airsofter is now in illegal possession of a Section 5 firearm, an offence which carries a maximum sentence of 10 years. Joe Airsofter is hauled off to the local nick.
In the safe zone, one of the officers notices a "for sale" table containing, among other items, Fred Airsofter's old AEG. This is also chrono'd and found to be at 1.04J. Fred Airsofter is arrested for being in "possession for sale or transfer of an unauthorised firearm"; he is also arrested, is convicted and ends up serving life.
Those are the possible implications of this amendment, which would be simple for the police to enforce.
I don't see this scenario being an issue.
What us folks on the front line believe is that this law will
only
be used out of malice. If you're skirmishing with someone who takes slight to one of your actions, he could ring the bobby and complain about your RIF that is actually a fully automatic air weapon because it's over 1.3J. Or, if the police don't particularly like the look of you, and decided to play a game of "pin the tail on the donkey" to see what offences stick - this sort of judicial buckeroo happens a lot longer than one may think!
One of the UKAPU affiliate members was in contact with his local police force, and the police force's opinion of this all thing was "lol we don't care it's Airsoft we have real guns to worry about" but the fact that we'll be having this Section 5 threat put over our heads is rather the chilling effect indeed.
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Libris
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#26
2 September, 2016, 09:32
Re: IMPORTANT correspondence with MA'S and Lord's
Originally posted by
twolanewill
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Based on what you have said yes it could be that simple, however whats to say the site doesnt get made .4g bbs to drop the fps..
Because that doesn't change the energy at all - if anything, in a gas gun it's likely to increase it!
Growing old is mandatory
Growing up is optional...
The tinkering tale of an airsoft addict, wargamer and book fanatic at
http://ocdairsoft.blogspot.com/
It even gets updated occasionally... Quite recently even!
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Siggi
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#27
2 September, 2016, 10:27
Re: IMPORTANT correspondence with MA'S and Lord's
I wouldn't lower myself to threaten him but I'd smile a very big smile if he was hit by a bus. "Seems like a nice guy." Seriously? Our sport has harmed no thing and no person in all the years it's been self-regulated yet this self-serving turd of an un-elected law-maker deems it right and proper to stick his nose in and try to enact legislation that serves absolutely no point or purpose? Pour quoi?! Quite the opposite in fact, it would destroy the sport and put thousands of decent people out of business. All because "you'll sting a little less, yay!"
Recognize scum like this for what they are.
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W0lf
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#28
2 September, 2016, 10:50
Re: IMPORTANT correspondence with MP'S and Lord's
As long as the site insurance covers it, and everyone consents to playing I don't see how this effects anyone. It's not about the look, we have the shitty ukara for that. So robbing a bank with a 500fps gun or a 280fps gun makes no difference. I just don't see the reasoning behind it and that's what makes it dangerous. Does anyone know his actual reasoning? I'd happily sign an extra piece of paper to say I'm happy to be shot by a gun over 1j if it came to it.
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Siggi
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#29
2 September, 2016, 10:55
Re: IMPORTANT correspondence with MP'S and Lord's
I've read that he thinks he can turn airsoft players off airsoft guns towards 'proper' air-guns and benefit those who sell them (what he considers the 'real' shooting sport). Which, if true, is why he should be prosecuted for malfeasance.
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Supa_T
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#30
2 September, 2016, 12:10
Re: IMPORTANT correspondence with MP'S and Lord's
In the safe zone, one of the officers notices a "for sale" table containing, among other items, Fred Airsofter's old AEG. This is also chrono'd and found to be at 1.04J. Fred Airsofter is arrested for being in "possession for sale or transfer of an unauthorised firearm"; he is also arrested, is convicted and ends up serving life.
I'm sorry but you're over-reacting. Police officers are human beings and also live in the real world. It's like anything - if you can have a reasonable discussion about the problem you're more likely to reach a solution that both parties are happy with.
I'm not saying I agree with the proposed change, or that it wouldn't be bad news for our sport,
or
that we shouldn't all be lobbying against it but I would call for a degree of calm when speculating on what it could mean if passed as is.
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