UCAP airsoft owner admits to stealing MOD equipment

[MrMcG]

Re: UCAP airsoft owner admits to stealing MOD equipment

He shouldn't of handled stolen goods and then sold them on for a profit.

You take the risks you pay the price.

It was only 50k worth because he was caught, I don't feel sorry for a thief regardless of who the victim is.

If a year inside stops him from doing it ever again then lesson learned.

[hotelkilo]

Re: UCAP airsoft owner admits to stealing MOD equipment

He shouldn't of handled stolen goods and then sold them on for a profit.

You take the risks you pay the price.

It was only 50k worth because he was caught, I don't feel sorry for a thief regardless of who the victim is.

If a year inside stops him from doing it ever again then lesson learned.

1) it was the conspiracy to steal that was more serious that the handling stolen goods i suspect

2) agreed

3) if you cant sympathise with any thief, ever, 'REGARDLESS OF WHO THE VICTIM IS" then you dont understand 'context' and i fear you may have no soul (you're not ginger are you?)

4) what if he didnt need a year in prison to learn his lesson? what if he could have learned his lesson and it didnt cost the taxpayer another £60k or even better while 'learning his lesson' he is actually paying us back for all the stuff he conspired to take

do you know that the recidavism rates for 1 year in jail is??

no i suspect that you have not availed yourself of the actual stats, its 60%. 60% of people who serve a year in prison re-offend. great, what a great lesson they've all clearly learned

[MrMcG]

Re: UCAP airsoft owner admits to stealing MOD equipment

No I'm not ginger and it's true maybe my soul doesn't exist but hey that's for my enjoyment.

Also as a fun side note my partner graduated in criminology and sociology so I have a very good view on prison reoffenders and the prison system as a whole.

The key part you have missed is the criminal in this case isn't a repeat offender, he isn't a person who bounces between courts and police stations frequently he was for all intense purposes an average joe but one who got caught and has now paid the price.

I think it's safe to say after his year inside he won't do the same thing again so yes HE will have learned we wasn't talking about General population only him

So if you want a discussion on the success rates and the overall prison system that's a totally different discussion this one is just about a single individual

[Bryan Mills]

Re: UCAP airsoft owner admits to stealing MOD equipment

Andy is a businessman.... And like all successful businessmen he his driven by and grades success by profits.

He had very desirable gear, hard to get hold of.
He was on his way to HK, a place well known for reverse engineering and cloning items of others R&D.
He had a captive audience of UK airsofters.

Now I don't know the ins and outs of the case well enough to say for certain, but if I was a gambling man I would suggest he had a very wealthy collector over there or he was taking them to somebody who could reproduce them for less cost.

If I had all my eggs in one basket, I'd be looking to get them reverse engineered and sell the clones to the Milsimmer types.

[hotelkilo]

Re: UCAP airsoft owner admits to stealing MOD equipment

No I'm not ginger and it's true maybe my soul doesn't exist but hey that's for my enjoyment.

Also as a fun side note my partner graduated in criminology and sociology so I have a very good view on prison reoffenders and the prison system as a whole.

The key part you have missed is the criminal in this case isn't a repeat offender, he isn't a person who bounces between courts and police stations frequently he was for all intense purposes an average joe but one who got caught and has now paid the price.

I think it's safe to say after his year inside he won't do the same thing again so yes HE will have learned we wasn't talking about General population only him

So if you want a discussion on the success rates and the overall prison system that's a totally different discussion this one is just about a single individual

do you think he HAD TO GO TO PRISON to learn his lesson

are you saying that was the only way?

are you definately sure that he will be in the 40% and not in the 60% cos i heard that some people go to prison for small offences and come out after having learned how to commit more serious offences. im sure your clearly 'overqualified for this discussion' family member may be able to help here

and thanks for bringing up your partners qualifications, (like it matters on any level) i wouldn't want to embarass you with my familys connections with the justice system but if i say that it includes 2 police officers with over 30 years served between them and a prison officer as well, all actually 'working' inside the crinimal justice system, not just chatting about it over coffee for 3 years..

whats actually important in the free marketplace of ideas, is not that you can make an argument from authority(or lack of it funnily enuf) but that any particular idea or suggestion lives or dies on its own merits, with no special pleading

[MrMcG]

Re: UCAP airsoft owner admits to stealing MOD equipment

And just by that response you have shown your ignorance and arrogance for anyone else's opinion or thoughts on the matter, other than your own.

My thoughts on punishment are irrelevant I am not the judge who sentenced him.

So at this point I won't bother anymore

He committed a crime he got caught and now he is paying the price

[hotelkilo]

Re: UCAP airsoft owner admits to stealing MOD equipment

yeah thanks for calling me names, most helpful

actually i am happy to continue the discussion and you are the one failing to answer my points and subsequently running away.. did you learn that from your partner as well?

we all know what happened in court and why

what i am proposing is that his punishment was vindictive not justice and i have pointed out exactly what kind of person needs to go to prison. dangerous criminals need to go to prison, simple

are you saying these three men are dangerous enough to warrant custodial sentences? and only that will suffice or succeed here? even considering ALL the costs both financial and emotional ?

essentially you are trying to tell me im wrong with no supporting logic or evidence other than 'i know your points already cos my girlfriend told me so'

and do you accept that there are some circumstances when we could feel sympathetic to a thief or are you holding a 100% zero tolerance stance on stealing?

do you accept that some 'small time' criminals go into prisons and come out much more serious criminals?

[sparrowhawk]

Re: UCAP airsoft owner admits to stealing MOD equipment

I totally understand where hotelkilo is coming from, Andy is an adult and committed crimes that could have serious repercussions, a years custodial sentence is harsh but fair on one hand, but on the other it only serves the purpose of making an example and giving out a message of intent for anyone else, because it is a further unnecessary waste of tax payers money and a huge price for his wife and young kids to endure. If it was me in his situation just having my name in the media would have been punishment enough, I have no idea how it will affect him though, personally I would say a year in the clink is a tad excessive but it is what it is, tough luck, dont do it again or get caught next time.

[MrMcG]

Re: UCAP airsoft owner admits to stealing MOD equipment

yeah thanks for calling me names, most helpful

actually i am happy to continue the discussion and you are the one failing to answer my points and subsequently running away.. did you learn that from your partner as well?

we all know what happened in court and why

what i am proposing is that his punishment was vindictive not justice and i have pointed out exactly what kind of person needs to go to prison. dangerous criminals need to go to prison, simple

are you saying these three men are dangerous enough to warrant custodial sentences? and only that will suffice or succeed here? even considering ALL the costs both financial and emotional ?

essentially you are trying to tell me im wrong with no supporting logic or evidence other than 'i know your points already cos my girlfriend told me so'

and do you accept that there are some circumstances when we could feel sympathetic to a thief or are you holding a 100% zero tolerance stance on stealing?

do you accept that some 'small time' criminals go into prisons and come out much more serious criminals?

I think you started the name calling with soulless, ginger etc but hey it doesn't bother me words are just that

I am not running away and actually I'm quite pleased that you want to discuss the matter sometimes these descend into total anarchy in which nothing is gained or learned.

As I said I'm not the judge I didn't pass sentence but as the same time I have to respect the judicial system as it's what we live by hence my comments regarding his sentence.

Do I think it's the best form of punishment no I don't - I would much rather he be forced to pay back the value of kit stolen, forced to repay the taxpayers for the cost of the court case and some sort of service that benefits the people. That would be a far better punishment which benefits others.

But I'm not a judge I don't know the criteria used for sentencing.

I fully accept some criminals go in and come out worse, and as I said my basis for zero tolerance on a thief was based solely on this one case of course there are circumstances when I have sympathy I.e. When stealing for food due to hunger etc Circumstances play a part, I'm not a barbarian but I do hold values as many others do

I also accept that my girlfriend doesn't know it all with all aspects of life even if she likes to think so however you assumed I knew nothing when infact I have some ( only 3 years ) but still some knowledge on the subject and it would appear that a degree may become part of the requirements to join the police force in the future if papers are to be believed.

[hotelkilo]

Re: UCAP airsoft owner admits to stealing MOD equipment

i only suggested you may be soulless and ergo ginger as a joke because you seemed to offer a zero tolerence policy on stealing in general which seems illogical to me at least, thank you for clarifying your position

and thanks for your response overall, it shows you have a good deal of character i would say and no im not trying to take the mick

yes i am an opinionated fkr, and somewhat blunt. and its my opinion that these guys didnt need prison to learn their lesson. if anyone can convince me that 2 of these 3 guys NEEDED TO GO TO PRISON, and that there was no other way it could be resolved to a better outcome for all then i am all ears, i am totally open to persuasion using logic and facts

[JCheeseright]

Re: UCAP airsoft owner admits to stealing MOD equipment

You're all acting like he's the first man to have ever gone down for selling on moody MOD kit, he's far from it. Sentencing in this case I'm pretty sure will have been influenced by sentencing guidelines and precedent from other cases. A fine example would be the AET from 815NAS that robbed a set of aircrew goggles and tried to eBay them; he got discharged with loss of pension and a good few years of porridge.

[druid799]

Re: UCAP airsoft owner admits to stealing MOD equipment

All I can say is after reading the court details how disappointed I am in a guy I did have respect for , at first I did give him the benefit of the dought (even defended him) when has the gutter press ever let the truth get in the way of a good story ? But it went way beyond getting some 'shonky' kit from your connection in the forces , ALL ex-Squaddies or people with connections have done that at some time or another this DID go way beyond that , he was handling ordered stolen goods for profit , it probably did start out at a Harmless' level any one who knows him knows how much he likes shinny shinny things , this became ego and greed motivated .
Did he warrant a prison sentence ? Don't know.
Does he warrant a huge fine ? Yes he does .
Does he deserve his reputation destroyed ? deserve it , I don't know , has it done that ? For me yes it has left it in tatters .

[StargateP90]

Re: UCAP airsoft owner admits to stealing MOD equipment

He is a bellend, deserves the lot.

On my phone, my spelling will suck

[god84]

Re: UCAP airsoft owner admits to stealing MOD equipment

Deserves the lot!!

However, all i see is this causing the anti-airsofters gaining another branch to beat us with.

[SRB]

Re: UCAP airsoft owner admits to stealing MOD equipment

Ive not met many people who can get along with him, he was always a bit of a d!ck tbh! Shame because the UCAP sites are pretty decent on the whole.

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