Very high rps... What's the point?

[Copey]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

I can see the point in a high ROF but there are so problems. I haven't read all the comments in the thread so some of these points may have been said already.

Positives:
More RPS - more chance of hitting the person before they see you.
Possibly extra rage through slipstream but you do have to account for the grouping of the bb's and the trajectory won't be perfectly straight.
Sounds pretty cool.

Negatives:
Over a certain amount of RPS you can get some feeding issues.
You use a lot more ammo.
It costs a fair bit to upgrade everything internally to handle a high speed motor that will run efficiently.
More things that could go wrong.

These are just opinions of mine. Whether any of these are true, I don't know but these are the things that I would consider if I wanted a high ROF

[Robin-Hood]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

I think the closest you can get to a real round is 3BBs. (One will hit a twig, one will go off course and one will go in the right place. :p )

Basically it comes down to this, the sooner I can get those 3 rounds down range the better. I want to pull the trigger and have the BB heading towards my target as fast as possible.

Then again I don't really use high RPS setups (30RPS or under) and I can't remember the last time I used full auto.

[HunterAndy]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

Basically it comes down to this, the sooner I can get those 3 rounds down range the better. I want to pull the trigger and have the BB heading towards my target as fast as possible.

I think if you can't hit someone with one shot you're not in the right firing position, and if you do fire it should probably be a full auto burst to cover. But if you've got time, why bother spraying and wasting a possible advantage?

Just because one person's come up with a theory about slipstreaming doesn't make it true, I highly doubt it has any effect, because the slipstream of a 6mm BB is so small, i'd like to see ANY edvidence to even support it.

[ElCarl]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

How fast a bullet goes down range is all to do with FPS not RPS, trigger response is minimal anyway. :s

Just because one person's come up with a theory about slipstreaming doesn't make it true, I highly doubt it has any effect, because the slipstream of a 6mm BB is tiny, i'd like to see ANY edvidence to even support it.

No, he wants all 3 to be sent in the minimum time possible, i.e. the time between the shots.

[HunterAndy]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

Realised he meant that when I hit enter, you ninja'd my edit

[North West Outpost]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

In the past I was all for High ROF setups, though they never really interested me as anything other than a technical exercise. However I recently encountered someone using a 30+ RPS M4 at a very up close and personal CQB site. Being laced with a 2 second burst to the face/neck somewhat changed my perspective on the matter. Despite wearing full face I came away with a fair number of welts purely because the amount of rounds in the air managed to find gaps between the mask, scrim and my BDU's. The sheer weight of fire hitting the goggles at that range too certainly caught my attention :p

With a high ROF setup I believe that a player has the same responsibility for safety as someone with a high velocity setup. Anyone that thinks that sort of setup is CQB friendly is not someone that I'd want to play against. Why use 70 rounds when 2 will do?

There is one other thing that is starting to bother me about high ROF setups and that's realism. Whilst I accept that it's only a game and we're firing plastic balls at eachother, but a 2500 round per minute M4 tends to break the suspension of disbelief for me.

That said, it is only a game and anone can choose to play it however they want. A 3000rpm M4 has just as much place as a two tone L96 or an MP5K with a double drum mag.

Bear with me a second. Not that I condone hitting anyone with high rof and 2 sec bursts.

But think about this, it isn't a personnal dig either as it could easily apply to most of us I'm sure.

Two things that jump out here.

First, who's fault was it that you got hit with a full 2 second burst....Unfortunatly it was yours for not using/ being behind cover.

You see posts every where looking for realism. What is more realistic one single bb or 30 hitting very close together?

The truth is high rate of fire IS more realistic.

[CHIFF_MoA]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

Positives:
More RPS - more chance of hitting the person before they see you.
Possibly extra rage through slipstream but you do have to account for the grouping of the bb's and the trajectory won't be perfectly straight.
Sounds pretty cool.

Ah, the slipstreaming thing again. To get within any 'useful' channel of low pressure air you would have to have accuracy well beyond what smooth bore weapons are capable of. Not only that but once you were in such a channel your hop up would be less effective, rendering the point moot. Should you actually gain any extra range, how do you propose to get the round in front out of the way?

At 328fps a 20rps gun sends out the rounds at roughly 5m intervals. The wake produced from an object in a fluid is relative to the size and speed of that object, for example the amount of useful wake you get off of a lorry on the motorway at 70mph is probably only about 10m. I don't have the ability to model teh effects of this, but my gut feeling tells me that any sort of useful low pressure zone behind a bb would be measured in mm, not meters. IF this were the case, to have rounds 10mm apart in the air you would need aa 20,000 RPS setup :p

Fluid dynamics is a complex area, it is just as likely that sending the rounds down range closer together would produce innacuracy as they pass through the previous rounds turbulence. Finding the sweet spot would require computer modelling, deviating as much as a couple of RPS from the perfect setup would likely produce a negative impact.

[CHIFF_MoA]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

Bear with me a second. Not that I condone hitting anyone with high rof and 2 sec bursts.

But think about this, it isn't a personnal dig either as it could easily apply to most of us I'm sure.

Two things that jump out here.

First, who's fault was it that you got hit with a full 2 second burst....Unfortunatly it was yours for not using/ being behind cover.

Do you play any CQB? There's a lot of clearing rooms, dynamic entry and having to be outside of cover.

My point really was that in such an environment a couple of rounds is what is neccecary, not 70-80.

You see posts every where looking for realism. What is more realistic one single bb or 30 hitting very close together?

The truth is high rate of fire IS more realistic.

So say an AK47 firing at 1800RPM (30RPS) is more realistic than one firing at 600? Really? You're going to have to walk me through how you came to that conclusion. With 30+ RPS setups everyone is runing around with handheld gatling guns in terms of rate of fire..

[Boo-Sabum Ben]

I'm with the man above. What?!?

[ThatblokewiththeScar.]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

I think the point Midas is making is that a large number of BB's landing simultaneously is akin to a burst of large caliber rounds landing as opposed to one single BB which lets face it is not a great deterrent to keeping heads down.

I don't have anything as fast as Midas but I do tend to think of fast guns as making up for the lack of caliber. For instance lets say you and two other players are in a bunker or small out building you are about to be assaulted by two people. One lays down realistic cover fire at say 700rps whilst the other advances using single shots to get the kill. It's a good tactic but one of you may feel brave enough to pop out and nail the advance shooter.

If however the guy laying down cover is landing three or four times the ammo in a barrage of BB's there is very little chance that any of you will want to stick your heads up let alone return fire. It's a force multiplier laying down the ammo from the equivalent of three or four guns in one go.

This does not excuse lacing people with 30 rounds in the throat at point blank and at Bexley and Northfleet we dont allow full auto inside the buildings ever.

And lets face it how many times have you seen a new or inexperienced player with that kind of firepower? 20rps Yes 25rps yes but 30rps plus not so much! So excluding the fact that there are assholes wherever you go the few very high rate of fire guns that you may come across or always welcomed when they are on your side. Firstly for the reason given above and secondly because they are almost always wielded by experienced players who understand the abilities of what they are shooting.

[HunterAndy]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

I think that some of the experienced players have a habit of sitting back just as much, if not more because they think the rifle should do all the work, due to it being "upgraded". Having upgraded rifles can make players complacent- i'm not saying all players but it definitely makes some players lazy.

Rental users tend to get more stuck in in my experience, because they just do what they can with the rifle they have. The only time's i've been laced with a high RPS rifle is point blank when the player could have just fired 1 or 2 shots and hit me comfortably.

The thing is, if you have a rifle that is firing at twice the RPS, then the sustained fire period is going to be half as long.


The arguement about it being "more realistic" seems illogical to me, alot of appeal for airsoft players is that it is closer to real life warfare without the inherent danger of live bullets.
Realsim players use all the realistic gear & kit, some people try to use field tactics and real capacity magazines to make the game more realistic so that they have to be careful with their shots- then go and ruin it by having an AEG that fires completely unrealistic speeds.

If you are at least going to run around with a stupidly high ROF rifle, do like rampage and make it a minigun for realism's sake.



Edit:

cover fire at say 700rps

lol...

[Boo-Sabum Ben]

The covering fire point I understand, but if you know anyone who can come out, take a shot, then back round the corner, within the time gap between bbs being fired from a standard well put together rifle, then I will eat all of my own guns, and shove both my BFGs up my nose and let them off.

There's never any reason to have a higher rps. Ever. It's just too much. People are welcome to have it, but it offers absolutely 0 advantage other than occasional fear.

[ThatblokewiththeScar.]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

I understand peoples reluctance to accept guns with an above average rate of fire but the old excuse of "It aint realistic" is getting a little old.

If you want realism then you should only be using GBBR with 30 round magazines, Team radios, Grenades around every corner and in every room before entry and every time you think there is a sniper you call in an Airstrike.

There are weapons manufactures in the real world building guns with outrageous rates of fire as well as Ray Guns and Sound Amplification Beams meant to disorientate the enemy. So should we take Vauxhaul Corsa's to milsims and turn up the Bass!

I fully understand that not everyone likes every type of gun or every type of game play. But the question is whats the point of high rates of fire and the point is to have a high rate of fire. Simple's...

[ThatblokewiththeScar.]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

but if you know anyone who can come out, take a shot, then back round the corner, within the time gap between bbs being fired from a standard well put together rifle, then I will eat all of my own guns, and shove both my BFGs up my nose and let them off.

And if there is such a human I want him/her on my team! :D That is nothing like what I said. If you are under sustained cover fire the amount of ammo landing around you will govern your bravery as to whether or not one of your team will pop up and risk a shot. 700 rpm (caught it that time) is heavy but not very intimidating. 2800 rpm that will make you keep your heads down and consider letting grenades of up your backside![/QUOTE]

There's never any reason to have a higher rps. Ever. It's just too much. People are welcome to have it, but it offers absolutely 0 advantage other than occasional fear.

Well you may as well say there is no point in fully automatic fire and put a 5 second delay between single shots.

[Boo-Sabum Ben]

I guess you'd be more scared, but wouldn't it be better if the person thought it was okay and actually jumped up and got tagged? One less to worry about in there.

There's plenty of reason for full auto, hence why we have it, but it's perfectly capable of doing the job it was designed for, at the speed it was built at