Does this sound OK? Upgrade related

[original poster]

Hi all,

Firstly, I have an Ares G36K EBB and want to get the ROF up and also good trigger response.

My current plan is this -

SHS high torque motor
Billy Breach MOSFET
11.1v LiPo

Would this achieve the 20-25 ROF I am after reliably? The gearbox is a V3, I assume it will handle it without problems?

Any other recommendations?

[blytm]

Re: Does this sound OK? Upgrade related

Try using this thread for more info: http://forums.zeroin.co.uk/showthrea...igh-ROF-Thread

Moved to Tech.

[original poster]

Re: Does this sound OK? Upgrade related

Thanks, I've already had a read up on that, it's what gave me the idea to be honest!

[Bachelarius]

Re: Does this sound OK? Upgrade related

With the Ares blowbacks you DEFINITELY need sorbo on the cylinder head, possibly double-layer it if you can fit that much and maintain a decent angle of engagement, may want to radius the window corners as well. Those cases are very fragile. Talk to wookie about getting some sorbo.

Also, you need to change the stock piston head, if you have not done so already. Again, very fragile, seen 2 fail in exactly the same way (i.e. explode).

Other than that, disable the blowback, make sure that you tighten up the spring guide well and you should be ok.

Also, I haven't mentioned shimming yet because that is a given btw - great video guide is located below, but bare in mind you need some (~0.1mm) play in the bevel, as that's mounted on bearings and they don't like being stressed, especially the 6mm ones. Or just swap those two for bushings

.

[johnnyj]

Re: Does this sound OK? Upgrade related

your ares gearbox will die tbh mate , micro switch and mosfet is a big no no unless is a simple non AB fet . the blow back bar will break very fast using a 11.1 lipo with other parts aswell ( ares piston head will not take the pounding :P ) . I find the g&p m120 is a lot faster than the shs motor .
me i would fit these parts

shs hi-speed gear set
shs piston
g&p m120 motor
remove the blowback bar
run a 7.4 lipo with a non Ab fet

[original poster]

Re: Does this sound OK? Upgrade related

Thanks all, it is a non AB MOSFET I plan on buying from Billy Breach on here!

The gearbox was also reshimmed a couple of months ago by the previous owner on here.

Thanks for the advice, seems I need to do a lot of reading before jumping into things!

[baddbaz]

Re: Does this sound OK? Upgrade related

Can't fit a replacement piston in an ares gun as the area pistons are a smaller diameter . As said before in this thread . Area pistons are v weak and shatter easily. Gearbox casings are not the best. And a MOSFET with contact less trigger ??? Ares are not a good gun to run an 11.1 on . Unless you have an undying urge to Hoover up bits of plastic and metal from your gun !!!!!

[Grounded_Pilot]

Re: Does this sound OK? Upgrade related

Please avoid using an 11.1v LiPo in Ares gun, unless you know exactly what you are doing!! :p I have the exact same rifle, it was serviced recently and it was guaranteed a working gearbox using an 8.4v or 7.4 LiPo.

Ares are not really worth risking... it is really rather hard to find replacement parts without asking retailers for a special order/finding it in HK.

I get very nice ROF and trigger response with a 7.4v 2200mAh battery with a 35C discharge rate!

[Bachelarius]

Re: Does this sound OK? Upgrade related

@baddbaz, why would there be an issue with fitting a fet on a microswitch?

And I've fitted a new piston AND piston head into an Ares G36K without issue, maybe different models are significantly different, but I struggle to believe that they would be using off-spec pistons. The stock piston that was in there also looked fine to me. 7 metal teeth and is well reinforced, made of a material that is nice and springy, so takes shock nicely. I am sure you could run it on an 11.1, but it will take some effort and that case is a real weak spot, but it's definitely not impossible

In my opinion the parts in an ares which suck are:

* Motor
Ares motors are terrible, SHS high-torque will be a decent replacement, just be sure to break it in first, it's why so many people are complaining of them blowing early. Or try a Lonex torque/balanced if you just want a motor which is unlikely to be a lemon, and it runs cooler.

* Piston head
Again, really, really bad. Replace with a ported plastic one (SHS, Lonex... anything really! you need a ported one though, they allow for a smoother back-draw)

* Case
Fragile AND proprietary, only available from ares and takes months to arrive. Yay, nice one ares! Sorbo and radiusing are the only things you can do to try and improve it. Should extend it's life for a while.

* Microswitch
Means that you simply can't fit a smart or braking mosfet due to it has major bouncing issues. In addition, it is only rated to 15A. A mosfet at least alleviates the Amperage issue and improves resistance. People have tried filling the block with dielectric grease with mixed success, tried fitting a mosfet and a tactile switch (like a mouse button one) with mixed success.. It's the only part that I don't have a definite solution for, even the guys at ASM refuse to deal with them at the moment, I'll hopefully do some research into this issue at some point in the future, but as it stands, fit one of Billy's mosfets and watch out for excessive motor or mosfet heat. If it's getting hot, use a 7.4v instead and take the ROF hit.

* Air Seal components
I found the Blowback G36s a nightmare to get a good air seal in. Getting the right nozzle to mesh right with that hop unit is tricky, but once you have it sorted, it should be fine. Do research on this one to see how to improve it.

Everything else is fine. You could fit some 13:1s or something similar in there to up your speed on a 7.4 if you really want, but get it working first by doing the above and go from there

Hope that helps.

[baddbaz]

Re: Does this sound OK? Upgrade related

The area pistons are a smaller diameter as we found out last month after trying several brands of aftermarket pistons in our g36 c to replace the existing broken one . Even tried my good mate Chewie ( tech god ) on this one and got told the same . . Also some ares g36 models use S&t gearsets in them . Cloned kings arms gears by the looks of them . But have s&t stamp in them .

[Bachelarius]

Re: Does this sound OK? Upgrade related

Cool, cheers for the heads up Will be on the lookout for that in the future. Any idea what the difference was in the end? Can you just file down the rails to accommodate? Or is it that the sector pushes into the piston too much?

[johnnyj]

Re: Does this sound OK? Upgrade related

odd with the pistons not fitting , got a non ebb and ebb shell here and just tried - g&p /Shs / tm / aps and some random pistons out the box all fitted bar the Shs i have atm as that was a little longer and a little tighter in the gearbox frame .

[wilko129]

Re: Does this sound OK? Upgrade related

@baddbaz, why would there be an issue with fitting a fet on a microswitch?

And I've fitted a new piston AND piston head into an Ares G36K without issue, maybe different models are significantly different, but I struggle to believe that they would be using off-spec pistons. The stock piston that was in there also looked fine to me. 7 metal teeth and is well reinforced, made of a material that is nice and springy, so takes shock nicely. I am sure you could run it on an 11.1, but it will take some effort and that case is a real weak spot, but it's definitely not impossible

In my opinion the parts in an ares which suck are:

* Motor
Ares motors are terrible, SHS high-torque will be a decent replacement, just be sure to break it in first, it's why so many people are complaining of them blowing early. Or try a Lonex torque/balanced if you just want a motor which is unlikely to be a lemon, and it runs cooler.

* Piston head
Again, really, really bad. Replace with a ported plastic one (SHS, Lonex... anything really! you need a ported one though, they allow for a smoother back-draw)

* Case
Fragile AND proprietary, only available from ares and takes months to arrive. Yay, nice one ares! Sorbo and radiusing are the only things you can do to try and improve it. Should extend it's life for a while.

* Microswitch
Means that you simply can't fit a smart or braking mosfet due to it has major bouncing issues. In addition, it is only rated to 15A. A mosfet at least alleviates the Amperage issue and improves resistance. People have tried filling the block with dielectric grease with mixed success, tried fitting a mosfet and a tactile switch (like a mouse button one) with mixed success.. It's the only part that I don't have a definite solution for, even the guys at ASM refuse to deal with them at the moment, I'll hopefully do some research into this issue at some point in the future, but as it stands, fit one of Billy's mosfets and watch out for excessive motor or mosfet heat. If it's getting hot, use a 7.4v instead and take the ROF hit.

* Air Seal components
I found the Blowback G36s a nightmare to get a good air seal in. Getting the right nozzle to mesh right with that hop unit is tricky, but once you have it sorted, it should be fine. Do research on this one to see how to improve it.

Everything else is fine. You could fit some 13:1s or something similar in there to up your speed on a 7.4 if you really want, but get it working first by doing the above and go from there

Hope that helps.

What do you mean by breaking in the motor? As in how would one go about doing that?

[RedHawk]

Re: Does this sound OK? Upgrade related

You can burn a motor out by turning putting power into it but keeping the pinion gear static. Makes a nasty smell.

[Kaladyr]

Re: Does this sound OK? Upgrade related

You break in a motor by running it on a very low voltage battery outside the gearbox. I have a 3.6v I've rigged for myself just for this purpose. The intention is to wear the brushes to contact the commutator cleanly without doing so under load.
Some people break a motor in "wet", it's really not necessary.

As for pistons in Ares gearboxes, I have 5 Ares guns and have never had a problem running different brand pistons in them