Element High Speed motor Dead

[FlangTal1ty]

I recently purchased a few bits and bobs to get some more speed out of my TM based SL9. I started with SHS 13:1 gears, Element high speed motor and a Billy Breech mosfet (bought from this forum). After fitting the new parts I got about 100 or so shots in bursts and semi-auto out of the gun until it stripped the piston.

Replaced the piston with a SHS 7 metal tooth and tried again, this time about 10 shots then dead. I took it all apart and checked it over, nothing out of the ordinary so back together again and got 1-2 shots before it was dead. This time i removed the mosfet as it was the only thing I couldnt test so thought it was best to eliminate it from the system.

All back together and now nothing, not a sausage. I attached a battery directly to the new motor and it was dead! After removing the brushes I found them to be very rough, damaged and is short, knackered - image below. So any idea what could cause this? I have now removed the Element motor and soldered the TM EG1000 back to the gearbox and have fired a full hi-cap and it ran perfectly.... I didnt bother with the mosfet this time so I can only think that either the motor was a lemon or the mosfet caused the problems? Anyone else have anymore ideas or could share some experience?

[dadio]

Re: Element High Speed motor Dead

element stuff is cheep but mostly good but the stuff that's not good is rubish,it may be a bad commutator,thats the bit that the brushes touch on the rotor ,if you completely strip the motor and remove the rotor then put the shaft into a drill and spin it then use wet and dry paper of 240 or more grit to polish up the copper commutator it might restore it.

[FlangTal1ty]

Re: Element High Speed motor Dead

Thanks dadio for the responce,
Im not really after a way to fix it though as the motor is about 1 week old and fired about 120 shots in total. If it was an old motor then I would strip it and do as you say but in this case im after a cause of the fault rather than a fix. Now the EG1000 is abck in there it works fine (though slower than I wanted) but If I get a replacment element motor from the retailer will this happen again??

[dadio]

Re: Element High Speed motor Dead

probably be no problem at all even if you went for another element as its unlikely you'l get another lemon,and i can't see how the mosfet could cause the problem unless it has an active breaking system that's faulty or too aggressive so i think you have a clear diagnoses of dodgy motor.

[Phatvortex]

Re: Element High Speed motor Dead

Its always worth breaking a new motor in using the water method.

If the brushes/ commutator are a bit rough, it'll smooth them out nicely before you bang full load on the motor.

As an added bonus, it'll run quieter and give you 1 or 2 rounds per second for free.

[desolation91]

What's the water method?

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[seansamurai1]

Re: Element High Speed motor Dead

Never heard the water method, however attaching the motor to a low power and turning slowly for a while probably achieves the same outcome. All it does is beds the brushes in slowly to avoid shock loading and possibly melting of the brushes on their initial run, once bedded in the friction is very low so melting isnt an issue.

[madwelshman]

Re: Element High Speed motor Dead

a common technique in the RC racing world

[Phatvortex]

Re: Element High Speed motor Dead

http://www.rccartips.com/rc-electric...ning-guide.htm

[FlangTal1ty]

Re: Element High Speed motor Dead

Should the water method or 'bedding in' be common knowledge or practice? I have heard of both techniques but there is no mention of this in the packaging of the motor as a necessary step . Afterall a high speed motor should be considered as a performance upgrade so shouldn't it be lipo or high voltage ready without having to run it in on low voltage? I'm not against these ideas and I wI'll probably try them with the next motor I buy but is the motors failure down to the lack of bedding in or does everyone agree it was a lemon ?

[dadio]

Re: Element High Speed motor Dead

the water method is for bronze bushed motor's not ball bearings that are in all performance aeg motor's,running a tuned aeg motor under water will wash the grease from the ball races and i would not recommend it at all.if you read that article its very specific on the bearings,for rc cars they have a standard class with reg's on the motors stating no ball raced motors,when they talk about modified motors they dont suggest the water method.

[Phatvortex]

Re: Element High Speed motor Dead

Should the water method or 'bedding in' be common knowledge or practice? I have heard of both techniques but there is no mention of this in the packaging of the motor as a necessary step . Afterall a high speed motor should be considered as a performance upgrade so shouldn't it be lipo or high voltage ready without having to run it in on low voltage? I'm not against these ideas and I wI'll probably try them with the next motor I buy but is the motors failure down to the lack of bedding in or does everyone agree it was a lemon ?

Nah, definitely a lemon. It will run fine, but as with anything, you can improve its performance and life by taking a few steps out of the box.

the water method is for bronze bushed motor's not ball bearings that are in all performance aeg motor's,running a tuned aeg motor under water will wash the grease from the ball races and i would not recommend it at all.if you read that article its very specific on the bearings,for rc cars they have a standard class with reg's on the motors stating no ball raced motors,when they talk about modified motors they dont suggest the water method.

Wash the grease from sealed bearings? I've never heard of water soluble grease before, or of sealed bearings with holes.

It's not particularly specific, it just says as a side note that it helps break in the bushings. The main purpose is to break in the commutator and brushes.

As I read it, they were just suggesting two different methods of breaking in motors, the water method by far being the quickest.

I've not had a motor die on me from lack of grease, despite breaking in all my motors using the water method.

A broken in motor and set of gears is noticeably quieter than a set that is not as a big bonus.

[dadio]

Re: Element High Speed motor Dead

"The best way to gain power from these motors is to properly break-in the motor brushes and the bronze bushings"
"This "water dipping" method will also break-in the bronze bushings" says quite clearly bronze bushings,anyway you'r motor not mine.they even draw a line under that section before going on to modified motors with bearings.

[Phatvortex]

Re: Element High Speed motor Dead

"The best way to gain power from these motors is to properly break-in the motor brushes and the bronze bushings"
"This "water dipping" method will also break-in the bronze bushings" says quite clearly bronze bushings,anyway you'r motor not mine.they even draw a line under that section before going on to modified motors with bearings.

Kindly search the internet and learn a bit of reading comprehension before you start spreading BS.

NOWHERE in that article do they dissuade you from using the water method with a modified motor. If you actually look into it as well, many people recommend the water dipping method for modified motors, with the caveat that you lubricate the bearings afterwards.

Ball bearing motors are supposed to be regularly maintained and lubricated/ cleaned, but how many airsofters do you see regularly cleaning and lubing their motors? Do they fail regularly? No.

[FlangTal1ty]

Re: Element High Speed motor Dead

Alright guys calm down calm down :-) I appreciate all the input, seems like water dipping is the way to go but just in case I misunderstood this method.....you hook up the motor to a couple of AA batteries and completely submerge it in a bowl of water and let it run till the batteries die? Is it just me or did I miss the whole electricity/water bit?