Mp5a3 upgrades HELP

[zaak23]

Right have got a ca mp5a3 already has a madbull tightbore barrel I want to upgrade it a lot I've decided I want it to be as good as or better than a systema am thinking of getting a systema long shaft turbo motor. Is that a good idea or is there better? Please guys cheers

[Fizzy]

Re: Mp5a3 upgrades HELP

Erm, what are you actually hoping to achieve?

[zaak23]

Re: Mp5a3 upgrades HELP

Mainly better ROF and trigger response

[Kaladyr]

Re: Mp5a3 upgrades HELP

Better rate of fire and trigger response are easy, but don't equate to "better than Systema".

I'm going to give a disjointed ramble here...

1) Don't buy Systema parts, it's like buying something from Sony, you pay for the name on the device while there are better parts available for less money pretty much everywhere.

b) If your aim is purely better trigger response and rate of fire, get a good torque motor (Element, SHS), 13:1 ratio gears, an SP110(ish) spring and short stroke your piston and gears by two-three teeth, whack in any form of mosfet and get a decent discharge LiPo and you're done.

iii) If your actual aim truly is "better than Systema", that's an easy enough thing to achieve, in principle, while also being exceptionally hard to achieve in practice... You'll be taking a lot of third party parts, which are individually better than the items Systema use, then be trying to make them work nicely together in a fashion where the gun doesn't tear itself apart in a couple of days skirmishing. Nothing a Systema does in terms of it's use is particularly remarkable, the biggest thing is that it does everything well and reliably. I have recently built myself a gun that will make any Systema look like a cheap toy (and anything else I've come across at sites) and done so for fractions of the cost, but I built it over the course of about 8 weeks, spending 1-3 hours on it every single night and having to do a lot of work on various parts (including scratch builds on some components) to make sure everything meshes in such a way that loads are absolutely minimised and stresses are balanced carefully. Factor in the number of hours spent on that build and the effort put in, I have a gun that is quite a fantastic piece of engineering, but if you're not prepared to spend that time with it and simply tried to replicate it by buying a bunch of parts and shoving them together it wouldn't even last you a single days skirmishing.

* It would be easy enough for people to just throw up a parts list, but that in itself, as highlighted above, would only be part of the story. If you really want to aim for "better than Systema" you'd be far better off reading around quite widely and learning how everything works in an airsoft rifle and why, so you can make up your own mind on parts and get a build that both works and lasts. Pushing extremes isn't to be done lightly or quickly.

- Finally, as I'm running out of means of bulleting these points, think about why you want to make these changes too. Frankly, I did it myself as an engineering challenge, I ultimately end up not using most of my best builds as they give you too much of an advantage and I enjoy my gaming for the challenge, not just for being able to shoot someone before they can even get into their own range...

[brooxy]

Re: Mp5a3 upgrades HELP

<snip>

Just out of curiosity, have you got any sort of log online for your build? What you describe sounds pretty interesting and if you've got any form of build log, I'd be there like a shot. Especially as I'm pretty much going to rebuild every part of my M4 over the course of the next year (initially bodywork and then take a few days out to work solidly on the shooting mechanism).

On topic, I'll just say I've tried the torque vs turbo motors - torque appears a lot more responsive from the initial pull and will be better suited if you are going for a 350fps, high ROF setup. From experiance, a turbo just doesn't have the guts to pull a strong spring quickly. The turbo that I used to have in my MP5 (~270fps) was brilliant, but when I moved it to a more powerful gun, it didn't do much over the stock motor.

[Kaladyr]

Re: Mp5a3 upgrades HELP

Just out of curiosity, have you got any sort of log online for your build? What you describe sounds pretty interesting and if you've got any form of build log, I'd be there like a shot.

Intentionally not, no. Mostly because I'm a mean spirited bŁ$%^$d who doesn't want people to be able to copy my work easily and have something as nice, I like having something that stands out, it's nice being in a room with three guys running Systemas and having people coo over your gun
Other factors include mostly just not having all that much spare time (I didn't really have the time to spend on that build) and as such not wanting to spend the time writing up a build page, though I did photograph a lot of the work and might get around to it at some point in future. The work was quite extensive though and I'd need to spend a fair bit of time explaining just how much work needed to be done, where and why.

Especially as I'm pretty much going to rebuild every part of my M4 over the course of the next year (initially bodywork and then take a few days out to work solidly on the shooting mechanism).

Good, it's definitely the way to go. My project started purely 'cos initially I wanted a bit more out of what was just a spare/loaner gun I had, but I took the whole thing apart, thought "What could be done better here?" and realised the answer was "Pretty much everything", so started from scratch.
If you understand the mechanics of an airsoft gun it's easy to see where a lot of the gains can be found. If you then trawl the internet you'll come across a lot of people who've had all sorts of fun ideas as to where they can find efficiency gains or physics "cheats", pick and choose what you think isn't pie-in-the-sky and then trial.
For an example of the work required though, I honestly spend around four hours over two nights with a french file very gently taking absolutely minute amounts of material off one component just to make sure the fit was absolutely perfect so as to eliminate as much stress as possible from that connection and got to the point where my micrometer couldn't actually see a gap at all, it thought the two pieces were actually one.

On topic, I'll just say I've tried the torque vs turbo motors - torque appears a lot more responsive from the initial pull and will be better suited if you are going for a 350fps, high ROF setup. From experiance, a turbo just doesn't have the guts to pull a strong spring quickly. The turbo that I used to have in my MP5 (~270fps) was brilliant, but when I moved it to a more powerful gun, it didn't do much over the stock motor.

Speed motors do have their place, with a lower power spring (340 is still okay) they will generally have the highest peak RoF once fully spun up, but the spin up is significantly longer, their only real place is in a support weapon you want to be buzzing through rounds.
Torque motors hit peak speed far, far faster and can easily provide anything you want in terms of sensible high-speed fire.

Personally, in my build, I went for what would otherwise be a very fast build, but purely for the trigger response, I then have the mosfet set to trim the continuous cycle speed to 15rps because I use low caps and don't want them to just empty, but then I almost never come off semi either.