Element High Speed Gearset

[jones4420]

Bought an Element 13:1 high speed gear set. Comes with gears, piston and shims. I have tried to fit this to a Fairly standard Classic Army G36c and an ICS M4 fittted with a high speed motor. Both guns jammed as soon as you pull the trigger.
Anyone got any idea's how to sort it please.

[HuntR]

Re: Element High Speed Gearset

Are the gears shimmed and greased properly. Have you tried a different piston also.

[jones4420]

Re: Element High Speed Gearset

As far as i know i have shimmed it properly and i have tried a standard piston.
The one that comes with it has a tooth missing after the first one. I have read about this in AI magazine.

[Gaffa]

Re: Element High Speed Gearset

Ah, that there is a problem.

If the piston is missing a tooth, you're going to have to shave the LAST tooth off your Sector Gear (this is the gear that engages the piston).

[Fossilfuel]

Re: Element High Speed Gearset

Ah, that there is a problem.

If the piston is missing a tooth, you're going to have to shave the LAST tooth off your Sector Gear (this is the gear that engages the piston).

Are you?

[richy b]

Re: Element High Speed Gearset

no expert, but i thought that mod was for "short shifting" your gearbox to increase rate of fire? (gaffas post)

i bought the same gear set for my mp5k-worked a treat, might be worth checking the angle of engagement of the gear against the piston-you may have to put a spacer or two in there.
oh, i used the piston that came in the set-the tooth is missing to stop premature engagment of sector gear.

cheers rich.

[Fossilfuel]

Re: Element High Speed Gearset

Short stroking yes removing one of the sector gear teeth to speed up the cycling speed of the GB but not nessasary to make the gears work.

Removing the pistons 2nd tooth is to prevent the sector gear stripping/damaging the tooth/piston in hi speed set ups due to the angle of engagement between eh gear piston.

The jamming could be a multitude of things (correct assembly, fitment etc) - do both AEG's GB's work with the original gear set's installed? if so it could be the gears - i did have one set a while back that were warped and oval (not element gears) that refused to turn in a gearbox at all)

[sj_asc]

Re: Element High Speed Gearset

To narrow it down a little, did you hear the gears move at all when you first pulled the trigger? Or did you get a humming noise from the motor initially.

Did you adjust the motor height after installation for both of the guns? Due to different dimensions and or shim setting it will need to correctly adjusted in order to prolong the life of the gears and increase efficiency.

Take the cylinder and piston assembly out along with the spring. Then screw the gearbox back together as if you had finished the job.
Put your finger through the mechbox cylinder window and try to turn the sector gear, it should move fairly freely, if it doesn't, thats your problem. You will need to adjust the gear spacing accordingly.

You shouldn't need to be short stroking at this stage, it's not something id recommend unless you know exactly what to do and why you are doing it.
The aim here really is to get the gun working with the new parts as it should do rather than hacking the parts to pieces.

[paulyboy]

Re: Element High Speed Gearset

agreed with sniperjesus also check tht ur spring isnt to strong for the high speed gear set i run the same gear set as u and using a higher fps spring slows the set down try a m100 sping

[jones4420]

Re: Element High Speed Gearset

Thanks for all your help guys. Have put it together with the gears and piston and the gears turn ok, the piston also comes back to where it should release and i could then move the piston forward by hand.
Having read some of your comments and looking on the internet i am begining to think that the spring fitted could be to powerful. Both guns are running at around 350 fps with a 115 ish spring.
When i get chance i will fit a lower power spring and give that a try.
Both guns worked fine before.

[ThatblokewiththeScar.]

Re: Element High Speed Gearset

Your problem is almost certainly the spring. The 13:1 gears go like the wind and don't really like M100's let alone M115's. Try a TM standard spring 280fps this works brilliantly with very high ratio gears, not only does it not offer to much resistance but also helps to reduce Bounce when the piston returns. Bounce can cause the piston to move forward a little and helped by motor overrun this in turn causes problems when the sector gear comes around to pick up the piston which is then not where it is supposed to be. Another thing to look at is high speed motors don't always have the sheer grunt to turn hi ratio gears, a hi torque motor on the other hand will have no problem at all and will still allow stronger springs if you must have the extra power. Changing to a higher amp battery will help as well, going from a 2000mAH for instance to a 4300mAH will improve the performance of any AEG regardless of gears. One final thing and a must for high ROF guns is a braked mosfet in my humble opinion anyway.

[sj_asc]

Re: Element High Speed Gearset

Indeed, a stiffer spring such as the M115!? is unnecessary at standard levels.

Due to the potential speed that the setup is capable of delivering, id advise against a stock TM spring to minimize pre-engagement risks. Something like Guarders SP90 or a Systema 1J would be better balanced.
I do also recommend a battery with a high drain rate.

Ultra low ratio gears such as the 13:1 sets greatly increases the load on the motor regardless of spring.
As pointed out the majority of high speed motors on the market are typically low torque and will not have the grunt required to get the setup running efficiently with the low ratio gear sets. Motors like Systema's magnum would be better suited as they offer a lot more torque aswell as being faster than almost all stock motors, the torque is potential speed with the right gear set.

[Gaffa]

Re: Element High Speed Gearset

I'm using an Element M95 in my High Speed Setup. No problems.

Also, wouldn't an M115 (370+) put it over the limit? If you're going to run it at 370, then torque gears would be better than high speed.

[ThatblokewiththeScar.]

Re: Element High Speed Gearset

Jesus makes a good point (never thought I would ever say that sentence) about pre-engagement however as your piston already has the second tooth removed this should be less of a problem, but an M90 M95 would give a little more bite. Something else to consider is lightening the piston. It's known as Swiss-cheese as it involves drilling a number of holes in the piston to remove bulk. The result is less mass to be moved by the gears resulting in higher rof it should also help return the piston quicker which will also help alleviate pre-engagement. There is a video on youtube of a guy with a 50+ rounds per second P90 and i believe he has used almost every trick in the book to obtain such a ridiculous rof. One thing you will have to get used to if you are going down the high rof route is rebuilding your gearbox! I had a TM G3 a couple of years ago that ran a 12v 3700mAH battery, it ran about 32 rps I sold it after it's fifth or sixth piston in 4 months...