The ultimate question; What am bestest Gearbox?

[Viet-Namoury]

As the title says;

Currently I am making my first serious custom gun made out of the shiniest parts to make a sweet as a nut rifle I can trust and love because I've put blood sweat and semen into it. And I tried starting by going "right which gear box" and I was already stumped! Can anybody help?

p.s. please dont go

SYSTEMA AM TEH BESTEST as honestly, is a gearbox worth three hundred quid?

[jagillham]

Re: The ultimate question; What am bestest Gearbox?

Well....

Flipping the question round slightly!

The V2 gearbox (found in M4, M15 & MP5) is probably the worst. The TM version ranks rather low, with Classic Army being a bit better, and then the reinforced Systema and Guarder being up top. This is all due to the weak spot on the V2, which means it cracks off after some time.

The V3 (Found in most other weapons) is better. Any major brand will be good!

More to the point though, what you hoping to run with this gearbox?

[Viet-Namoury]

Re: The ultimate question; What am bestest Gearbox?

Yeah I've had a TM M4 Gearbox break on me. And I'm hoping to do an armalite model rear wired with deans and a lipo running around 355 fps, havent even thought about what hop or motor to get

[Jeddmann]

Re: The ultimate question; What am bestest Gearbox?

All the "weakness" issues of the V2 mechbox only really become apparent at FPS's that are commonly used in the US and Asia- around 400fps.

In the uk, and with the limits on FPS, an m100 spring and a tightbore will give you approx 340-350fps, and the stock V2 gearbox shell should be fine for an m100.

Failing that the Modify brand V2 gearbox case off a certain world in scotland is supposedly VERY highly thought of.

[HuntR]

Re: The ultimate question; What am bestest Gearbox?

I can vouch for the modify mechboxes. They are very well built and run like a dream.

[drmike]

Re: The ultimate question; What am bestest Gearbox?

Does the weakness in the V2 gearbox also extend to the V2 extended gearbox as found in the likes of my A&K SR25 ?

[Gaffa]

Re: The ultimate question; What am bestest Gearbox?

Yes. If you're using Semi-auto, it shouldn't be too much of a problem. But then at those power levels, it really could be.

But G&P do a SR-25 reinforced gearbox shell, might be worth having a look at that.

In terms of strength, the general song that TM sing is that as the number goes up, the more reinforced they are. For example, the Version 7 found on M14's and Version 8 found on the Type 89 are supposed to be the most reinforced.
How true that is; I don't know.

[richardy]

Re: The ultimate question; What am bestest Gearbox?

What am the bestest gearbox is limited really if you want an amalite, its really what am the bestest m4 gearbox. i dont know if you read my post further down this section on the history of the gearbox its worth a read, youll see there that the version 2 gearbox "design" is 17 years old. Anythig you buy now adays is the same design just newer.

everyone complains about the gerabox cracking but honeslty unless you have a poor cylinder head and other internal parts most of the shock from a 350 fps gun as mentioned above is absorbed and even if it does break like has been mentioned above you can just stick another gearbox caseing on it job done.

what you have to worry about is the inherant problems that where discovered in version two through the years other than that, the posistion of the cut of lever and trigger mech. combined with a lower voltage or half trigger pull, has the tendancy to catch the sector gear at 3/4 cycle this locks out the semi auto function, and you need to flick tofull auto to move the cut off lever out the way. This is known as version 2 lockup. as it only happens on version 2. Often its only cued by good trigger displine / high voltages / better quality parts. Another problem is wobbly motor, some models the motor moves in the grip cuasing excess wear on the pinion or bevel, this was cued in later versions with a cage. The lockup is the most anoying often requireing a strip down to the insides to free the anti reverse latch. And unfortunalty i see it in the case of hire guns, that lock ups happen a crap load. To the point where i honeslty dont know why people use amalites as hire guns a tm or jg ak47 with a v3 would be ten times more reliable but thats a debate for another occasion.

so lets look at the technology, what options do you have for an "advanced" amalite.

1. AWS full cycle mosfet system, ill admit i stopped following this a while ago but im sure its only got better with time, basically a computer controlled aeg cuircuit, it senses when the piston completes its cycle. Thus if its computer controlled theres no need for mechnical timing thus removing the anti reverse latch and cut off lever from the aeg. also has other features like burst, semi, and a stop switch like the sopmods and hop up sensor. i really rate this for those confident with wiring there aegs. but its always sold out.

2. The systema revolution, im sorry i too think this is a "rediculas" price hence the fact that they have only shipped 4 units worldwide but still the technology implications of this new design cant be ignored, the gears have a built in optical sensor allowing the computer to control each shot once again no need for mechnical timing, this is garrerentyed to be a more consistance shot every time removing half cycles and half shots when you see a shot thats just not the same as the others from your aeg, systema also pride them selves on low compresion .. i mean high rof, they use low compression / low friction methods to acheieve a more effcient gearbox cycle. hence there off the cuff higher than most rof, and its not just the rof this in turn affects trigger response which is also an electronic switch, which removes travel time. This gearbox having used it with a 12v nimh or 11.1v lipo is the greatest trigger response youll ever see in an aeg, i s*** you not. BUT THE PRICE its disgusting.

3. The most important from a history stand point, The TM m4 sopmod "next gen" series, everyone getts lost when it comes to these guns never getting past the outsides and the fact that these guns have blowback and recoil, if you forget the outside aditions if you focus on the gearbox inside. its a "new" version 2, this isnt another company making a few shiny new parts for the version 2 and calling it enhanced version 2, this is "finally" tm redesigning the version 2. Tm who everyone else copys. the version 2 is 17 years old the first m4 was 12 years ago which was two years before CA army even made its first gun, so this is why its exciting that tm has redesigned the version 2 gearbox. as it could be another 17 years till they do it again!. so the next gen gearbox has the following fixes over normal version 2

- repostioned gears and cut off lever, also redesigned cut off lever eliminating version 2 lock up.
- large tappet plate timming lobe to increase the bb loading time (like a sector chip)
- tight handle, the handle is tighter , like really tight, to stop an motor movment like a cage.
- eg 1000 "max" its tms new high torque motor
- longer trigger and changed switch block, the trigger and how it operates the switch block has been change slightly i can only asume to try and adjust the fact that normal m4s eat switch blocks for breakfast.
- The trigger has a small notch on it, you can loop the trigger spring over this holding it in place while you fitt the trigger, as a gunmechanic, its litle things like this that impress me most. (theres nothing worse than trying to hold a spring and spring guide inplace while simultaniously using the other hand to hold the trigger in while using your nose to hold the anti reverse latch in, and trying to put the case on and it all goes ping just before the case shut closed)
- gears are thicker, high torque jobbys
- the spring is quick change so you can take the spring out with out dissasembling the gearbox this means no exploding gearbox infact its so easiy to work on this gearbox, no pinging out parts, case off case on, case off, case on, its as easy as that.
- theres a cut off feature for shutting the gun off when the mags are empty, most amalite users appriciate this.
- theres a cut out on the lower part of the gearbox meaning you can access the anit reverse latch with out taking apart the gearbox.
- the dust cover on this gun wont close if your leave the gun half cocked, ie half cycle, youll have to fire one shot in semi to close the dust cover, meaning you cant put your gun away half cocked. not that it happens that often the design seems to do full revolutions much more effeicnetly probably to the redesigned cut off lever.

That said ive not had to once unlock my sopmod in 9 months of use. It just works and works and works and works, we make jokes on site, if you want a reliable gun get a sopmod. (if only there was more versions as not everyone likes the sopmod)

all parts are avaiable now as aftermarket spare parts.

thats just the gearbox not to mention that the sopmods now full metal and weighs the same as a real steal. 3.2kg. and also has blowback and a recoil engine.

and the mags are probably the best mags ive ever used.

hope this help
rich

[jagillham]

Re: The ultimate question; What am bestest Gearbox?

All the "weakness" issues of the V2 mechbox only really become apparent at FPS's that are commonly used in the US and Asia- around 400fps.

Not my experience I have to say.

I have cracked 2 TM V2 gearboxes within a couple of weeks of each other. Purchased the Systema reinforced mechbox, which has just cracked now after 12 months.

All run with M100 springs.

[Viet-Namoury]

Re: The ultimate question; What am bestest Gearbox?

Wow rich you should really get a PhD in Airsoft! Thankyou very much that was ridiculously useful, I might just have to buy a SOPMOD, are they worth their five hundred quid price tag then? And are the externals easily changeable?

[richardy]

Re: The ultimate question; What am bestest Gearbox?

ha i accept your honorary PhD nomination

I personally think they are the last airsoft gun i will ever buy.. i waited and i waited for something that would end my constant gun complaints from what ever model i owned, id find something that needed fixing or upgrading.

I even love that i had to spend a crazy amount on new mags, they feed perfect, are metal, great quality and obviously stop the gun when empty. ive never had so much faith in my mags and gun in the field. And you cant put a price on confidence in your weapon.

you can buy hi caps to save some pennys, i 1 gun 1 bat 1 mag, but if im honest you dont buy this gun to run hi caps, i think those that do quickly sell the gun on as its not for them. i also think that everytime you use hi caps on this gun, somewhere a kitten dies..

I will admit though the body work on the tm the upper and lower reciever could be better its metal which is a great step forward for them and perfectly fine but considering the price i think it could have been better, same goes for casting marks on the flash hider, that said the box is nice...

Bare with me on the externals, i like my internals and how things work but honestly, outsides wise i dont care what it looks like, i use mine like a work horse i chuck it about scuff it up, cover it in dirt, and it always makes me cringe when i remind my self how much i spent on it. but then thats what its therefore.

i know that its tried to be a 1:1 like the ptw, so some issue fitting stuff like sling adaptors, but theres offical ones now, i know the delta rings propriatary, so if you want to fit a new front end you will need to fit a new delta ring as well, which isnt aprob as it usually comes with front end kits. The stock can be change BUT you will have to rewire to the front and peq or something if you do.

Batterys wise is its only let down, the gun as all guns do, work better the more voltage you put throught them and its lacking battery wise as its a quick change setup.

What most have been doing is adding an extra cell to the battery making it 9.6v and then charging mid day or buying a second battery and also charging mid day.

i converted mine to a 7.4 lipo 3000 mah so it last all day and still has the quick change

youve got options

Also the hop units amazing better than the m14 hop unit, and i have an m14, and its upset and crying in the corner becuase i dont play with it any more.

so to answer your question its worth every penny, you just have to weigh up how much you play airsoft and is it your main hobbie, how much do you spend on airsoft gear, and stuff and break it down. I sold up a lot of guns to buy one good gun. As i figured why have lots of average guns when i can only use one in the field.

i mean, i spent 50 quid on a pair of gloves a few months ago as example, when i first started airsoft, i cringed and was reluctant at having to pay a fiver for some. i think as people progress in airsoft there needs change and all though the sopmods not for everyone i cant recommend it enough.

[Gaffa]

Re: The ultimate question; What am bestest Gearbox?

Note, that the Blowback AKSU, AK-74MN and G36K are now released as well.

[sj_asc]

Re: The ultimate question; What am bestest Gearbox?

I agree about TMs new SOPMOD for the most part. TM has truely revolutionized the mechbox design by making a decent EBB. The V9 (revised V3's) aren't really in the same league, more of a spin off of guarders Auto back kits. The SOPMOD will be brilliant to anyone who whats to keep the gun for what it is, and at the moment thats about as high as it stands. They do not fare too well with spring upgrades at all, they are certainly not any where near as efficient at that end as the conventional design is primarily due to the dual stage spring compression. In the UK it isn't really much of an issue because there are those that would argue that the top class hop system more than makes up for it. Over seas where the FPS limits are higher is where players will have more of a headache. There are a few aftermarket upgrade parts out there for the new mechboxes, but they barely offer much more than stock performance.


Back on topic.
The most flawed mechbox strength wise is the V2, the majority of the clones and "reinforced" versions out there are not a lot better because they aren't reinforced in structurally relevent areas, and for the most of them, they still use the same poor cast zinc alloy which in the qualities commonly used can be a hit or miss as to wether you're shell cracks.
The only truly reinforced spin offs of the V2 is the Haynes shell (no longer available) and the Modify Torus, i can speak for the Haynes shell. The Torus is reinforced in relevent areas and as a result it requires a different tappet plate.

In response to Gaffas post, the V7 is a solid design, the V8 is just a redesigned V2. TM chose to use reinforcement in the same areas that SystemA did, hence the V8 looks more like a reinforced V2, but like before the reinforcement isn't at the front end.

Other manufacturers played with the design a little (or a lot) and made split piece designs. ICS was the first to take it into wide production, they are a fair bit stronger than the normal V2, however it is still known for the front end to fail.
Prowin took a similar idea and made a CNC mechbox which is truely bulletproof when setup properly.

As far as lock up is concerned, it is an issue with most other mechboxes as well as the V2, just they tend to occur less often and are easier to fix. The timing boards like those made by frank over at AWS are fantastic, with experience i can highly recommend their units.... just got to wait for them to become available again

After playing around with some of the newer designs, i am impressed, but i still prefer the conventional AEG mechbox designs at the moment.
I will throw in a vote for the V6 being the nicest to work on, and like the V2/3 there is a huge range of parts out there for it


In response to the OP, it is easy to head straight for SystemA in common belief that they are the best around, but the truth is, they aren't, and no one is.
No one manufacturer makes the best of every part, in my eyes the best product that SystemA makes is the Magnum Motor, and even that has its flaws.
My answer to "is the systema box really worth 300 quid?", well, if you are capable of doing internal work yourself or know an experienced airsoft tech, No.

[Gaffa]

Re: The ultimate question; What am bestest Gearbox?

Agreed, I think the Systema piston actually has one of the worst possible reviews possible... Then again their hop units are quite good.

Also throwing a vote in on the V.6. Love my p90.

[richardy]

Re: The ultimate question; What am bestest Gearbox?

[QUOTE=sniperjesus;251418]I agree about TMs new SOPMOD for the most part. TM has truely revolutionized the mechbox design by making a decent EBB. The V9 (revised V3's) aren't really in the same league, more of a spin off of guarders Auto back kits. The SOPMOD will be brilliant to anyone who whats to keep the gun for what it is, and at the moment thats about as high as it stands. They do not fare too well with spring upgrades at all, they are certainly not any where near as efficient at that end as the conventional design is primarily due to the dual stage spring compression. In the UK it isn't really much of an issue because there are those that would argue that the top class hop system more than makes up for it. Over seas where the FPS limits are higher is where players will have more of a headache. There are a few aftermarket upgrade parts out there for the new mechboxes, but they barely offer much more than stock performance.QUOTE]


Got to disagree with you there, the lord oh mighty himself is compelling me to exercise the demons....
Firstly the version 9 is the v1 shoot and recoil which is basically the same as the new g36 recoil engine. Inside the v9 is basically the same internals as the sopmod, so to say the v9 isn’t much of an improvement is to say the sopmod isn’t.

I want to know where you’re getting this info from about it "not faring well" or being unable to upgrade the gun? the problem is people with the gun or wanting to buy the gun will read your statement and think well it must be true, when I’ve ran mine at 350 fps for 9 months with over 20000 + rounds through it, and that’s just mine my whole team has them too at 350 fps, as well as the 20 + other people I know that are also running at 330 - 350 fps depending on their site. All with either 8.4v batterys 9.4v bats or lipos. With no failures? Granted it’s only what 25 ish guns, but as far as evidence goes how many do I need to bring to the table before people realise these are solid, reliable, upgradable guns.

"they are certainly not anywhere near as efficient at that end as the conventional design " i dont even know what you’re talking about there and I apparently have a PhD in airsoft, you know what, yes they have to compress two springs BUT one springs two inchs shorter than a normal aeg spring, the other is 1.5 inchs long and 1 qtr the strength of the main spring, I ask you this isn’t it actually doing less work by 0.5 inchs ? :P well no because its having to move a 300g weight as well but I was this close.... it uses a hi torque motor and hi torque gears to pull the weight back and works great on the stock 8.4v battery so anything more than this is a bonus, once the pistons released it has no effect on the guns operation or how it fires, so I’m assuming the efficiency your referring to is the speed at which it cycles? singles are crisp an clean made even more so by the new trigger and gearbox, with a lovely twang from the recoil unit, rounds per sec is more than fine considering the recoil units going as well as the blow back, you actually find yourself waiting for each recoil as it happens, and using it on bursts at most, especially with the awesome hop unit.

"There are a few aftermarket upgrade parts out there for the new mechboxes, but they barely offer much more than stock performance." I don’t understand, why do you need to improve on perfection? There’s every single part available in both oem and upgraded version, should you want to, if you want to get picky, yes you don’t have say for instance hi speed, hi torque options but you don’t need them, it needs the hi torque so why would you need options ? It has a hi torque motor why would you need to replace it with options? There’s a full range of Prometheus parts ? Can you get any better? Upgrade springs at the correct length for 330 and 350 fps? The pistons built proof everyone knows tm’s pistons last forever especially with average rof, Everything’s covered yet apparently the upgrades barely offer anymore than stock performance, if that’s the case then stock performance is fine by me.

The Americans run 400 + fps all the time I know this because they email me all the time, in fact the only guy I know that’s broken one was because he didn’t do the stock tube up tight enough, he fit a full sized aeg spring, which was meant to achieve 420 fps in a normal aeg, this most have equated to about 500+ fps in the sopmod combined with no room to compress the spring and the stock and stock tube shot off with much greater range and accuracy than a deepfire m72. Americans for the most part don’t like TM so sopmods in the states are fairly few and far between.
Personally I will be running a second sopmod at 425 on singles in a few months after a makeover, I’ll be sure to check back with a video when I do.
The whole reinforced gearbox debate is just not important, and also is a spin off from conversations and threads started in countries running more than 400 + fps all the time for hundreds of thousands of rounds. Have I repaired guns with broken gearbox in said place, yes, have those guns been old, broken or cheap, yes, has it happened to any half decent well looked after gun no... I just can’t agree with its importance, I bet you I could buy a standard tm m4 upgrade it to 350 fps, fire 25 thousand rounds none stop and that gearbox would still be intact. Its just not that important, if yours breaks fine replace it but at least give a few seconds thought to why it broken, or I’m sure it will happen again.
systema = complete rubbish parts incl the magnum.. systema have even replaced it with a new one they have label as "fixed" yet conveniently not told everyone that the other was rubbish so they can keep shifting the units still out there yet to be sold. Systema doesn’t care about their normal aeg parts that can be seen by their high failure rate, the plastic parts particularly.
The revolution though if it was a good fair price id consider it or at least be able to recommend it to others, especially since they are replacing faulty parts for free.. A service people have been using a lot.
Agreed v6 + hop unit = awesome but if you point a p90 hi cap and its feeding issues at me I’m going to have to hurt somebody..