Gun Dry Firing

[deldalton]

Hi everyone,

I have an ARES G36. It was purchased in August, 2012, has been skirmished five times and I've never had a problem with it. That was, until I took it to it's sixth game. Now, the gun fires maybe two BBs (if I'm lucky) and then starts dry firing. I tried multiple magazines but the problem persisted.

I asked the on-site technician to take a look at it for me (as this is my first gun and I didn't know where to start). From what he could see, it looked as though the air nozzle is too far forward stopping the BBs lifting high enough, to put it in line with the barrel, without pressure applied (and by this I mean more pressure than is provided by the magazine).

I've had a closer look myself and what the technician advised looks as though it could be true. But, it seems a little odd to me that it's only just started happening.

Now, I've come across this diagram which apparently shows how it should all work.


In the diagram you can see that when the trigger is pulled the tappet plate is pulled back, pulling the air nozzle back with it, allowing a BB to slip into place. When I fire my gun, it doesn't look as though the air nozzle is pulled backwards. This would perhaps suggest that the tappet plate is not being pulled back correctly or that my gun just doesn't work like that by design. I haven't taken the actual box apart so I don't know if mine is identical to the diagram but I'm assuming it's similar?

Despite the air nozzle not being pulled back, when I pull the trigger, I can see that it is pushed forward and then returned to it's original position.

So, I'm stuck on what to do. Mainly because it's only just started happening and I would have thought that if the nozzle was too far forward then it would have always have been too far forward and I would have had this issue from the get go. But, I'm not certain.

Should I consider replacing the air nozzle? It was suggested to try filing the one I have in the gun down so that it's not as far forward (although it was advised that this may, in fact, ruin the air seal)? Is there anything else I can try?

I'm reluctant to take it in for repairs because I think part of owning an airsoft RIF should be being able to maintain and repair it myself and I'm never going to learn otherwise. But, we'll have to see.

Many thanks in advance for your support.

[jssmitty96]

Re: Gun Dry Firing

if its worked fine all the toher skirmished you DONT need to file anything down as they are all obviosuly fine size wise to work id reccomend giveign it to someone who knows what they or doing (or yourself if your confident) and take the gearbox apart and just check everything is sitting right

[Lockesley]

I have had this problem twice before and in my case 1 it was the tappet plate on which the air nozzle sits broke and it pushed the nozzle forward slightly. 2 like an idiot i fell arse over tit and smacked the barrel on the floor and the impact unlodged the spring on the hop unit pushing it too far back towards the gearbox

So if it was me (im not very technical) ... check the barrel and hop for any issues like misalignment etc .... if its not that then it is a gearbox based issue and i would get it down my local tech

[deldalton]

Re: Gun Dry Firing

if its worked fine all the toher skirmished you DONT need to file anything down as they are all obviosuly fine size wise to work id reccomend giveign it to someone who knows what they or doing (or yourself if your confident) and take the gearbox apart and just check everything is sitting right

Jssmitty96. That's exactly what I was thinking. I didn't understand why I would need to make any modifications to any of the components as it's worked perfectly before. So, either something has broken and needs replacing or something has just dislodged.

I have had this problem twice before and in my case 1 it was the tappet plate on which the air nozzle sits broke and it pushed the nozzle forward slightly. 2 like an idiot i fell arse over tit and smacked the barrel on the floor and the impact unlodged the spring on the hop unit pushing it too far back towards the gearbox

So if it was me (im not very technical) ... check the barrel and hop for any issues like misalignment etc .... if its not that then it is a gearbox based issue and i would get it down my local tech

I'd like to take a look at it myself, otherwise I'll never learn. I'll try to make some time this weekend to take it apart. I'll need to order some grease first anyway. Any suggestions?

I do have one question, about dissembling the gearbox, that I'm hoping someone can answer. The ARES G36 has a "quick change" spring. Is it advisable to take this out first, before dissembling the rest of the gearbox? I noticed in TB-Stalker's guide he holds the spring in while taking the gearbox apart to stop everything from flying out. But, I figured if I already have the spring removed then I wouldn't face this problem.

[deanfirst]

I do have one question, about dissembling the gearbox, that I'm hoping someone can answer. The ARES G36 has a "quick change" spring. Is it advisable to take this out first, before dissembling the rest of the gearbox? I noticed in TB-Stalker's guide he holds the spring in while taking the gearbox apart to stop everything from flying out. But, I figured if I already have the spring removed then I wouldn't face this problem.

You are right.
And there is another thing, when you remove the gear set from the gear box,
There are certain amount shims on each gear, don't loose them and try not mix them with each other, they have different thickness.

[crasstoe]

Re: Gun Dry Firing

If this is the first gearbox you have taken apart, ask your local smithy if he is happy for you to be present whilst he looks at it for you to educate you on how it's done.

Out of curiosity what mags are you using? The Ares g36s are picky in which mags work.

[madwelshman]

Re: Gun Dry Firing

yeh, the beauty of removing the spring is you have no tension on the box, making it a doddle to take apart and put back together!

slowly take off the case and systematically remove each part WITH the shims, so you dont have to guess where everything went when it all goes back in.

Chances are the tappet plate is worn or broken, one other thing i'd check is that the hop still "locks" into the outer barrel, if it doesnt, the hop will push back too far, about 3mm further than it should, showing a small amount of air nozzle at all times, stopping a bb ever feeding into the hop.

[North West Outpost]

Re: Gun Dry Firing

Don't try to overcomplicate things. If you do you will more than likely make things worse before better.

Few things.

Tappet plate may be slightly worn, it doesn't take much not to allow the bb to load.
Hop rubber sitting back slightly.
Maybe mag spring doesn't give enough pressure.

I would:

Check your mags feed with good pressure.
Strip the gear box out, check inside, make sure all is ok. While you are in there fit a sector clip as they are only cheap.
Check hop, rubber, barrel and re fit.

There is a tappet plate mod you can do but you need to be fairly competent to be able to do it. Also need to check there is room to carry it out, if you over do it all you end up doing is adding stress to the tappet plate. You need to engineer parts too.


OH!

Doubtful you will be able to do anything as it is your first attempt. If you know someone who is able to do the work it will be much better for him to do it while you watch. OR it WILL cost you money to get it done properly.

As for shiming, it isn't just the amount of shims but also the height of the gear in relation to each other and the pinion gear. Always worth re shiming or at least checking befor you strip the box open. Then check gear height.

[deldalton]

Re: Gun Dry Firing

You are right.
And there is another thing, when you remove the gear set from the gear box,
There are certain amount shims on each gear, don't loose them and try not mix them with each other, they have different thickness.

Yeah, TB-Stalker's guide suggested re-shimming. I'll make sure that I don't lose track of the original shims though.

If this is the first gearbox you have taken apart, ask your local smithy if he is happy for you to be present whilst he looks at it for you to educate you on how it's done.

Out of curiosity what mags are you using? The Ares g36s are picky in which mags work.

Thanks, Crasstoe. I might see if someone is available. TB-Stalker's guide makes it look fairly simple but either I'm incredibly confident or you're all just trying to make sure I don't make a mistake ...

I have some G36 hi-caps. These have worked without any issue but they were second hand and I don't know what brand they are. I'll try to find out. I've recently purchased the ARES Expendable, G36, 140rd (Box of 5) from ZO. The fit into the mag well is much tighter but I only got to skirmish them in a rental because my gun wasn't firing. I did try to fire with my usual hi-caps but they had the same result so I'm not certain it will be a problem with the mags.

yeh, the beauty of removing the spring is you have no tension on the box, making it a doddle to take apart and put back together!

slowly take off the case and systematically remove each part WITH the shims, so you dont have to guess where everything went when it all goes back in.

Chances are the tappet plate is worn or broken, one other thing i'd check is that the hop still "locks" into the outer barrel, if it doesnt, the hop will push back too far, about 3mm further than it should, showing a small amount of air nozzle at all times, stopping a bb ever feeding into the hop.

If I do decide to go ahead with it, I'll certainly take photos every step of the way to make sure I don't miss anything.

I'm interested very interested in taking a look at the tappet plate and seeing if the hop "locks" into the outer barrel. I'm hoping I can easily identify whether it is "locking" into the outer barrel or not ...

Don't try to overcomplicate things. If you do you will more than likely make things worse before better.

Few things.

Tappet plate may be slightly worn, it doesn't take much not to allow the bb to load.
Hop rubber sitting back slightly.
Maybe mag spring doesn't give enough pressure.

I would:

Check your mags feed with good pressure.
Strip the gear box out, check inside, make sure all is ok. While you are in there fit a sector clip as they are only cheap.
Check hop, rubber, barrel and re fit.

There is a tappet plate mod you can do but you need to be fairly competent to be able to do it. Also need to check there is room to carry it out, if you over do it all you end up doing is adding stress to the tappet plate. You need to engineer parts too.


OH!

Doubtful you will be able to do anything as it is your first attempt. If you know someone who is able to do the work it will be much better for him to do it while you watch. OR it WILL cost you money to get it done properly.

As for shiming, it isn't just the amount of shims but also the height of the gear in relation to each other and the pinion gear. Always worth re shiming or at least checking befor you strip the box open. Then check gear height.

Thanks, Midas. I think I'll likely attempt to take it apart and just put it back together as it comes (obviously cleaning and re-greasing etc.) before I try anything extra.

[deldalton]

Re: Gun Dry Firing

Grease ordered. Should hopefully be with me for the weekend so I can give this a go!

[deldalton]

Re: Gun Dry Firing

I have another question! ...

This is a picture of the nozzle that came as stock with my gun ...




This is a picture of the only G36 nozzle I can find in stock. Anywhere.




If I need to replace my air nozzle, and the Guarder nozzle (that's the second picture) is the only nozzle I can get hold of, is this likely to cause me an issue?

[madwelshman]

Re: Gun Dry Firing

nope, the air nozzle cant go anywhere as its "shafted" by the cylinder head nozzle

[deldalton]

Re: Gun Dry Firing

nope, the air nozzle cant go anywhere as its "shafted" by the cylinder head nozzle

And, it'll attach to the tappet plate without any issues too?

[fangsnatcher]

Re: Gun Dry Firing

just a suggestion from another ares G36 owner....mine was good as gold until i introduced it to zero one bb's and then it double fed, dry fired and also jammed regularly. i'm switching back to blasters and hope that sorts it... may be worth a try too

[North West Outpost]

Re: Gun Dry Firing

They are well known for being crap!