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**Sitting Duck** · 12 June, 2015, 17:42

Re: ICS M4 Trying to locate issue.

Motor is gonna be my stab in the dark....

either worn brushes or the armature has a fault causing it to have a dead zone point
had a SHS one like that stripped out and replaced the armature with an old 28tpa from a ferrite motor
runs n pulls crazy stuff now.

Just before you buy a new motor I would run that motor and keeping spamming the trigger
(motor out of pistol grip btw)
but make sure the motor comes to a complete dead stop before firing again
hopefully say a dozen triggers or so later you might find that dead zone point - hopefully
(well that is what happened to the shs one - 9/10 it would run but now n then it just failed to turn over)

it might not fail to turn over and the motor could be getting knackered with old brushes - bits of copper/carbon dust
and with a m120 the worn stock motor might not enough grunt anymore especially if worn

it is firing but intermittent which is always a trickier problem to diagnose but reckon that is worn motor
could be the winding slightly iffy connection or a weak point in copper winding but easy way is to replace armature perhaps
as it is probably a black ferrite motor - look at end of gear and you should see black for ferrite
or silver if you are very lucky for stronger neodym motor - yeah if ya really really lucky but don't hold ya breath

replace with a half decent neodym one for about �25 to �30 and reckon problem solved
poxy guns

**Cpl-Mowatt** · 12 June, 2015, 20:20

Re: ICS M4 Trying to locate issue.

Ok, had a go with the motor out of the pistol grip.

Motor spins. After trigger is released it quickly slows down to a stop which looks pretty solid. It's not spinning freely (difficult to describe) Motor though does get quite hot fast.

I can't seem to find a dead zone point you described.

I stuck in a spare (not the same type but still ICS) "Super Japan motor" - It fires but then still having the same problem of firing perfectly then it just seizes and it doesn't shoot.

Both the Battery and the Motor are extremely hot after 10-15 mins shooting.

**Cpl-Mowatt** · 12 June, 2015, 21:00

Re: ICS M4 Trying to locate issue.

Now have either a dead motor or a dead battery.

Tried both motors outside the pistol grip. Absolutely no power in either.

Getting there. Going to try a new battery

**Sitting Duck** · 12 June, 2015, 21:37

Re: ICS M4 Trying to locate issue.

Originally posted by Cpl-Mowatt View Post

It's not spinning freely (difficult to describe) Motor though does get quite hot fast.

I can't seem to find a dead zone point you described.

Both the Battery and the Motor are extremely hot after 10-15 mins shooting.

Motor should not be getting hot after just a bit of spamming outside the box
I can't see/feel how hot is hot and everybody has there own levels of warm/hot etc.....
but a dozen cycles motor should be a little warm as there is no load on it - not hot

getting hot but tbh never ran a motor for 15 mins solid me thinks

a motor getting too warm or hot too quickly could be poor brushes or shimming of armature
the armature usually finds itself in the centre of the magnet's field and some plastic or bakerlite washers shims keep it there
with just a smidge of play much like the gearbox shimming. If shimmed to tight or too low/high like bevel gear then strain & heat can occur

but to try a 2nd motor and problem is same is a bit odd and somewhat baffled me

now battery looks like it has crapped out - possible dead cell over time now totally dead perhaps
usually dying a cell will mean battery lasts only a very short while

But you was describing the intermittent of it and that when unlocked or AR released it would cycle again
so I was stabbing at motor issue and its dead spot perhaps......

This could be a very long winded process of elimination atm........

first thing first you might be better taking it back to basics and with a good battery
heck even a psu of some description get that or other motor running on a table without too much heat

BUT only if you know what you are doing and properly set up the motor testing with psu/battery
(can use a pc psu on either 5v or maybe not 12v but only if you follow common sense for christ sake and only mess with stuff if you know what you are doing)

next if that is working ok plug into gun's wiring - it could also have a switch or wire fault - possible crushed wires
poor motor connectors or mega carbon build up on switch contacts.
So test motor out of box with good battery or 5v psu of a good decent supply

If then she runs ok without too much heat then test in box with battery - not psu as motor will be under great load on m120 etc....

Now locking up in box and heat could be shimming - yes gears sound ok but if bevel is shimmed a tiny bit low it creates great strain
as motor pinion is wound in and forces bevel hard against the top bushing/bearing - not exact schreeching but a big strain rather than schreech

this "could" be happening as well but it don't explain the motor overheating outside the box

that as I said could be wiring, brushes, motor's shimming etc and will have to back to simple stages to establish exact cause
in case of motor don't mess about with it too much coz brushes and stuff may not be fantastic and it is still an old ferrite motor
so a new motor at some point may be needed but still need to reduce the hot motor running on its own problem

it might be a number of things - gearbox could have low shimming or piston catching plus the m120 on an old ferrite ain't helping

keep us updated on how you are getting on but like I say might have to really go back to bare bone basic tests
fix the main problem and perhaps remedy any others that you discover as you put her back together in stages

weird motor heating up out of box like I said but as its ICS you can run the motor in lower box with just a smidge of stress turning gears over before replacing top half and start pulling back the spring/piston

so you have got a lot of testing stages to go through but at least you should be able to narrow it down fairly soon I reckon

**Cpl-Mowatt** · 19 June, 2015, 12:04

Re: ICS M4 Trying to locate issue.

Trial and Error complete

Barrel and Hop up unit - New, clean and clear

Upper receiver gearbox - New, no damage to piston, tappet plate. All moving

Lower receiver gearbox - New, stock, no lateral gear movement, very well shimmed for a stock ICS gearbox. Gears spin freely if motor and anti reversal latch are disengage. No signs of wear and tear.

Motor - Turbo 3000 - full working order.

Battery - 2000mAh NiMH - DEAD

Replaced battery with new 2000mAh, charged at 0.2A. Tested motor, sparks flying everywhere, high speed, tried another motor also sparks and extreme speed.

Battery was the cause of the problem, unable to hold a charge and unable to cycle the gearbox. Battery had been out of use for 5 years.

Very happy to have it in full working order. Hope to clean out the old split gearbox and put in some new wiring as the contacts were burnt and the selector plate contact was also off it's rail so it failed to fully contact the rest of the trigger assembly.

**Sitting Duck** · 19 June, 2015, 14:57

Re: ICS M4 Trying to locate issue.

Congrats on getting her working once again

Battery was main problem - blimey

Seems maybe it need a thorough diagnosis/strip down too and as for the old spare box.....
top gearbox - new higher/lower spring in case you go to different sites
lower gearbox when rebuilding - always have option of perhaps trying out a 14:1 gear set when you rebuild

so having the spare box ready to go with different spring/gears could be a bonus after all this grief

did wonder how you was getting on - thanks for update even though I was way off with initial motor guess
but congrats once more on getting her singing again after all that "fun"

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ICS M4 Trying to locate issue.

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