Making the perfect M16A2/4

[Gaffa]

Right, currently in the process of getting a complete M16 shell.

I have a receiver (two piece hop style, but have that 2 piece hop unit so no problem) which is full metal, marked with Colt trademarks and "AR-15A3". Now this is not going to be 100% authentic to what I'm after, but since Burst bodies are mainly the FN models (by Dboys, G&P (I think) and King Arms - but the latter cost around £100 - something I didn't want to pay just for a metal body when I got mine for £20).



(Yes, some of the markings are white and some are pencilled - opinions - pencilled [like the Tactical Carbine and Selector markings] or not?)

What do I want out of the project? Well, a Unique, great performer....

Here's what I have planned:

As I'm only getting the whole M16 shell and no gearbox, I'm thinking about getting the V2 gearbox shell - 8mm bearings, with the Quick release spring design. As for the internals, probably mostly Element and Prometheus combination ~ depending on my budget. The wiring is going to be "Dream Army" stuff ~ it's good up to 630 degrees apparently, and its a complete copy of the stuff that Systema use (in fact from my tests its a touch better).

She'll then be getting the Trigger Master Mark 3 mosfet in, and then wired up to accept an 11.1v Lipo battery in the full stock.

As for the motor - I'm not sure. I've got both the Guarder Revolution Torque and Speed motors here, and I'm wanting to match the rate of fire (burst) from the Real M16A2/ M16A4, but also have the same trigger response as the real thing. With the mosfet, torque motor and 11.1v, I think that should be possible.

I'm also hoping to put in a Madbull 6.01mm Tightbore, 509mm. And then perhaps an M203 handguard and launcher, to make a M16A2-M203.


But I'm just wondering and asking for advice and ideas:

Gearbox casing - sufficient for an M100 spring? Q.D. Design is purely to be unique and to change into a DMR if I feel like it.
Internal components - Poly Carb piston or standard TM? High Torque, or High Speed [gears and motor].
What motor?
What barrel?

Any other things you can think of? Basically I want her to be better than a Systema, performance - wise (which isn't hard to do apparently).

[Gaffa]

Re: Making the perfect M16A2/4

Also considering getting that Ambidextrous mag release catch.

[HuntR]

Re: Making the perfect M16A2/4

If you want systema range, you'll need a well set hopup and a fine barrel. Deepfire make very good barrels as do prommy. As for the gears, as you mentioned you'd be wanting to switch to DMR so you'd need a high torque gearset, with a good torque motor. Element max torque and G&P M160 being the best bang for buck. You'll also want a good gearset for an m120 spring or above. So no element as the tolerances can be a little out. I'd personally go with a modify set, or prommy, guarder. King arms if you 100% have to skimp a little. As for piston, TM stock or modify ultra with corrected AOE and 2 wisdom teeth shaved off.

[Gaffa]

Re: Making the perfect M16A2/4

Thanks for the advice.

As stated, this is primarily going to be the ultimate burst firing AEG, DMR is going to be one of those future options when I have a second M16 forend so that it can just be swapped out and Voila.

I was going to go with the Element Ultra Torque considering the price; but the difference between that and the Guarder Infinite Torque is very little - and considering its already sitting here, might as well pop that one in her to test.

The barrel - may test the Madbull 6.01, see how she performs, and if she's no good I can always pop that in my SA80 and order an EDGI 6.01 (OR even try out a Lonex 6.03).
Stuck on the hop side of thing, two piece hop unit from TM is going to have to do, but may pop in a Prometheus Hard (purple) rubber and combine that with a H nub.

From looking at a few Youtube videos, it seems the M16A2 can cap off her three rounds, on burst, very quickly. So perhaps High speed gears for that side of things? And don't worry, I'll be buying CNC'd gears.

[HuntR]

Re: Making the perfect M16A2/4

You'll still get a cracking rof with high torque gears, with the given motor you have and the 11.1 lipo. You don't want it too fast so as you lose power. If it tries to cycle twice before the piston returns fully, the piston will break eventually, and you'd get piss poor fps out of it. I never knew madbull did a 6.01, i was always under the impression that they only do a 6.03. There's not a need for a 6.01 in an AEG. It'll jam up and need cleaning too often. You just want a 6.03,6.04 or 6.05 with very good tolerances. And good ammo to pair with it. Hard hop rubbers are better at 400+ fps. H-nub is a good addition, but it can be fiddly to get it seated perfectly. I've always had good results with a Guarder enhanced/improved clear hop rubber with a standard hop nub.

[sj_asc]

Re: Making the perfect M16A2/4

For internal parts I would rule Element out purely because i know from past experiences that they do not deliver the same QC levels as many others, whats more, Element just clone and produce "cheaper" parts, despite producing a a few decent parts (i think some are accidental!) they are generally a low end budget parts maker.
Out of those that you suggested, I would say Prometheus is the way forwards.
You say that you would possibly change it into a DMR? What sort of FPS/Spring rate would you have in mind for that particular setup? Is the M100 spring for the general burst rifle setup, or as a max (DMR)?

I would say with a DMR in mind and the strive for a decent trigger response + high overall cycle rate then it would be better to opt for the Guarder high torque motor and a standard ratio gear set (Prometheus label original ratio as just "Torque" if that helps). The High torque motor would deliver the faster startup time (trigger response) on top of that it also has a high peak RPM, you would get a decent ROF advantage over many other motors in the same range anyway. On top of that if you are planning on pairing it with an 11.1v pack you would have a very high cycle rate (for the snappy burst fire) and the trigger response to go with it for semi auto.
The balanced gear ratio paired with the high torque motor - you would easily be able to switch the spring out for an M120/170% spring and still retain a snappy trigger response. Lower ratio gear sets would have a more negative impact on efficiency (trigger response + current draw) with the upped spring rate. A higher ratio gear set may be better suited if you opt for even higher FPS with the DMR, but peak cycle rates will be affected when you drop back down to woodland rated springs, hence why i think the stock ratio is the best balance.
Having said that, a decent 11.1v pack with the parts in question would be very fast, probably faster than you are looking for, and if the FET/controller doesn't have any software to reduce speed and you are set on 11.1v pack you could use higher ratio gear sets as an ineffienct way of reducing the peak cycle rate. Alternatively if the said motor is too fast you could swap it out for a slower one, EG1000 springs to mind
If the trigger master FET has active braking both with semi and burst fire modes then over cycles/double shots will not be an issue. What you will need to focus on with the higher cycle rates is the barrel length/volume to cylinder volume/type ratios in addition to the spring rate to avoid piston timing issues. I Know from experience having run many high speed setups (11.1v+, 50C LiPO, DSG etc..) that you have to keep the cycle rate+spring rate well matched to prevent lockups and stripped teeth.

Gearbox shell.
IIRC Modify is the only readily available V2 shell with reinforcements in the structurally relevant areas. That box should easily withstand the Burst and DMR configurations. They are available in both 7mm and 8mm bearing sizes.

Barrels and Hop.
I'm currently using PDI 05 barrels and they are fantastic, i highly recommend those to anyone. Ive used KM TN, Prometheus in the past and they are also very good.
Hop buckings. Systema, TM, KM RH, Firefly (or at least the older batches) are fantastic, Guarder clears are good if you fit them right. Prometheus buckings (and i highly rate the majority of their products) have to be some of the worst I've tested, the Hard (red) in particular was terrible, even past 560fps it was still not giving consistency at all.

Pistons:
TM will do just fine up to springs rated M120, with high speed configurations TM's don't fail in the area that nearly all Polycarbs do. Yes you will have to replace it....eventually, but they are dirt cheap and many people will let you have their old ones. Past M120 there are better alternatives, but they also cost more

[Gaffa]

Re: Making the perfect M16A2/4

Well I'd have another front end ready to attach to the lower and rear section, so I'd be looking at running an M120 in there to average around 420. Wouldn't lock to Semi, but as a honour sport would use on Semi only anyway.

Thanks for all your input, will probably look at getting a Systema hop (for a change).

[Gaffa]

Re: Making the perfect M16A2/4

If I get to sell my Famas soonish, this may well be coming up with a few videos!

Edit: Need mosfet advice.

Where should I have my MOSFET placed? Obviously, in the rear, in the stock, but should I have it towards the front where the wires go into the actual body and gearbox, or near the rear closer to the battery?