Dry Firing - A myth?

[Ray86]

Re: Dry Firing - A myth?

Sorry, I have to correct you on this Richard, it all depends on how good your airseal is. This is a video i made to check my airseal on my M4 DMR (SP130 spring, 480 fps locked to semi)

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=2rxz81e&s=7

It clearly shows the piston hanging until i let go of the nozzle.
Now im not sure how much more force a 130 spring has compared to a standard 100 spring but tension wise, it feels like double.

i know.. else i would have said it could be either.

The bb doesnt form a seal, theres gaps all around the bb. And even if you held your finger over the barrel, the air will go the path of least resistance, it will find a hole past the hop rubber or air nozzle or mag. Or blow your finger off the end of the barrel, do you really think there is ANY thing that you could put into that barrel which could slow down 14 ft lb's of spring... seriously guys, its like you trying to stop and air rifle shot with your hand thats how much force the springs hitting with.

come on guys, theres no debate use your nogging.

[JOE90]

Re: Dry Firing - A myth?

top airseal or not, the friction between the bb and the bucking will be the same in a high or lower powered gun, fair enough if the air literally used pounds upon pounds of pressure to force it out it may be different, but even a flick could force a bb out of its position in the bucking, therefore the effect it has when slamming on the wall of the GB housing, will be near enough identical loaded or empty. Dry fire is a complete myth, never done any harm myself, and if you do it was waiting to happen. Regardless!

[Grounded_Pilot]

Re: Dry Firing - A myth?

I have questioned this myth too.

But we simply do not have the undisputed scientific evidence disputing or confirming the myth.

No point squabbling like children- If you wanna dry fire, fine. Just you're taking a 50/50 chance with a not yet understood airsoft mechanism.

Having a physics background, there is good evidence for each side of the story.
Dry firing isn't gonna kill your gun. people are being far too extreme. Even with a V2 gearbox, it's unlikely that dry firing was the SOLE CAUSE. And, how the hell can you tell that your gearbox blew up from dry firing? it could do exactly the same loaded!!!!!

But many of you have said "oh a bb doesn't cause an air cusion"... erm, yeah it does. Even with air gaps, imagine blowing on a beach ball, close up- about an inch from your face. You'll feel some breath bounce off and hit you in the face, with most of it bending around the ball. It's that blow back that repels against the slamming cylinders and provides more of a buffer to stop it whacking as hard into the casing. It's exactly the same as a BB, just on a smaller scale with a lot more harsher forces.

newton's 3rd law remains undisputed...

"Oh no! Blow back!" - Ralf Wiggum.

HOWEVER- Your gun isn't a club. Your gun isn't a swiss army.....err... gun. It isn't a broom. It isn't designed to dry fire, so... don't do it. Use it as instructed and only as instructed. Safest way.
So, I'm for both sides- but not gonna risk dry firing more than necessary...

[Ray86]

Re: Dry Firing - A myth?

I think you guys are confused in thinking that our AEGS use a hydraulic system. Thats wrong, it is a PNEUMATIC system. Air is a very compressable gaseous fluid, meaning even before the BB has left the barrel, the pistonhead has already contacted the cylinderhead because it is the compressed air that follows that does the work. It is the exact point about the pounds of energy from the spring that compresses the air QUICKER than the BB actually exiting the barrel effectively creating an "air cushion". Think off the Marui VSR airbrake system.

There were many tests on this over at the airsoft forum with mechanics involved.

top airseal or not, the friction between the bb and the bucking will be the same in a high or lower powered gun, fair enough if the air literally used pounds upon pounds of pressure to force it out it may be different, but even a flick could force a bb out of its position in the bucking, therefore the effect it has when slamming on the wall of the GB housing, will be near enough identical loaded or empty. Dry fire is a complete myth, never done any harm myself, and if you do it was waiting to happen. Regardless!

[Ray86]

Re: Dry Firing - A myth?

sorry off topic but forgot to mention, please do not attempt to check your airseal with that method UNLESS you have active breaking mosfet. Reason is if you have over spinning gears and good airseal (piston hang) that means bad news for your piston, just a warning.

[airsoc]

Re: Dry Firing - A myth?

sound is not pressure. The movement of air generates pressure, which carrys sound with it.

really finding this thread quite interesting, but i had to just say that sound is change of pressure in the air[edit: should have said change of pressure in gas/solid or liquid hence no sound in a void]. not a thing carried upon it :P

my 2cents? no matter size/weight it will always be exerting forces that wouldnt be there on a dry fire. even the smallest change can have a drastic affect. the gun isnt designed to dry fire right? so dry firing is misuse, misuse always leads to damage. its enough reasoning for me (as a noob) not to do it.

[Cerbo Knight]

Re: Dry Firing - A myth?

I would have thought unless you haven't installed your hop up rubber properly, the bb will always be the path of least resistance? Maybe I'm wrong though :p

[matfan]

Re: Dry Firing - A myth?

Why is it that a lot of people seem to think that dry firing will cause all this damage but upgrading springs is ok?? I've only skim read a lot of this thread because to be honest, a lot of people don't seem to know what they are talking about. I mean come on, newton's third law?? Serioulsy??

Dry fire away Gaffa! I look forward to future threads about the earth being flat, santa being real or that women can actually do anything.

[Chandler]

Re: Dry Firing - A myth?

Wouldn't the bb of left the barrel before the piston hits the end? I personally have had at least 3 v2 headboard break on me in the same way. Non I can say was due to dry firing. Yet my jg mp5 came in hot. I dry fired the he'll out of it. No problems with it. (it didn't lower the fps enough though lol )
I don't think this will ever get solved. But as far as I'm concerned it don't.

However I wouldn't tell someone to do it because if it did break the flak would come to me!