Upgraded BAR-10 under performing

[Rookie]

I have made quite a few upgrades to my BAR-10;

Laylax Piston
Laylax Trigger sear
Laylax piston sear
Laylax cylinder head
Laylax 150 spring

and last time i skirmished it it chrono'd at 440 fps and the accuracy wasnt to bad. Since then i wanted to get it up to as close to 500 fps as possible as it was lacking the range i needed. The only thing i did since was remove the airbrake from the piston and replace it with the grub screw provided

Went today and chrono'd again, i have now LOST 40+ fps as its now firing around 395, and the range is really poor as is the accuracy.

Any ideas what can be done to improve ?

[portermush]

Re: Upgraded BAR-10 under performing

have you cleaned her? if not that maybe it.

[Caveira]

Re: Upgraded BAR-10 under performing

Check for piston compression by blocking the nozzle with your finger and firing. If you've got a good air seal then the piston shouldn't reach it's fully forward position until you take your finger away.

If it seems that there's a compression problem, I'd start by checking the piston o-ring, as you may have damaged that while moving things about. If not, check that you haven't moved the hop rubber and created a small air gap.

EDIT: I've just re-read your post and you say that range and accuracy seem down. That would suggest a hop issue, though while it's apart it's worth checking the airseal anyway.

Have you teflon wrapped the hop?

[Rookie]

Re: Upgraded BAR-10 under performing

have you cleaned her? if not that maybe it.

Yeah i cleaned everything last night when i had it apart.

Check for piston compression by blocking the nozzle with your finger and firing. If you've got a good air seal then the piston shouldn't reach it's fully forward position until you take your finger away.

If it seems that there's a compression problem, I'd start by checking the piston o-ring, as you may have damaged that while moving things about. If not, check that you haven't moved the hop rubber and created a small air gap.

EDIT: I've just re-read your post and you say that range and accuracy seem down. That would suggest a hop issue, though while it's apart it's worth checking the airseal anyway.

Have you teflon wrapped the hop?

Piston O-ring wasnt damaged last night so im guessing its still fine but i guess i can check again after dinner. It is really loose on the piston but im sure thats how its supposed to be as it was like that since i brought it brand new.

I havent really had the hop apart so im not sure what the condition of it is like, but the gun has only been skirmished a few times so i cant image its TOO bad. It hasnt been teflon wrapped no, what parts are supposed to be wrapped ?

[Caveira]

Re: Upgraded BAR-10 under performing

As we can't link to other airsoft forums etc, google jg bar 10 teflon mod and you'll get a good selection of results.

Assuming you get the same results as me, the first one gives a good list of mods, most with pictures, so you can check what you've done.

One link I quickly looked at does say that the bar10 piston o-ring tends to be loose. When I had an MP001 (which is basically a bar10 clone) I added a second (smaller) o-ring inside the standard one and that made the air seal much tighter.

Also, tape wrapping the screw threads before you put it all back together is worth doing.

[Rookie]

Re: Upgraded BAR-10 under performing

As we can't link to other airsoft forums etc, google jg bar 10 teflon mod and you'll get a good selection of results.

Assuming you get the same results as me, the first one gives a good list of mods, most with pictures, so you can check what you've done.

One link I quickly looked at does say that the bar10 piston o-ring tends to be loose. When I had an MP001 (which is basically a bar10 clone) I added a second (smaller) o-ring inside the standard one and that made the air seal much tighter.

Also, tape wrapping the screw threads before you put it all back together is worth doing.

Will take a look now, thanks for the info

Its the laylax part which comes standard with the o-ring real loose as it comes with the piston already fitted. I'll try taping the cylinder head thread too see if that makes a difference.

What baffles me most is how i managed to lose 40+ fps by doing something which is supposed to increase power lol

[Caveira]

Re: Upgraded BAR-10 under performing

The only thing I can think of (other than you accidentally knackering something else while it was apart) is that every photo I've seen of the airbrake mod shows only part of it being taken off. I don't know what happens if you remove the lot, but is it possible that that is an issue?

Try swapping the old piston back in and see what happens maybe.

[Rookie]

Re: Upgraded BAR-10 under performing

The only thing I can think of (other than you accidentally knackering something else while it was apart) is that every photo I've seen of the airbrake mod shows only part of it being taken off. I don't know what happens if you remove the lot, but is it possible that that is an issue?

Try swapping the old piston back in and see what happens maybe.

Im not really sure to be honest, but the laylax one is actually unscrewable and they even provide a grub screw to fill the gap where the air brake used to be. I was told by fs that if the M150 didnt do the job, that taking out the air brake would give me the extra fps that i want. Obviously this isnt the case haha

[Caveira]

Re: Upgraded BAR-10 under performing

Is there any form of seal for the grub screw?

Is it possible that you're loosing pressure back through the head itself, due to the grub screw not being sealed?

[Rookie]

Re: Upgraded BAR-10 under performing

Is there any form of seal for the grub screw?

Is it possible that you're loosing pressure back through the head itself, due to the grub screw not being sealed?

Nope, its a pretty shit design actually. There is nothing to stop the grub either, so you could just screw it through one end and have it fall out the other if you just kept on turning haha. Its pretty loose so i put some thread lock on it to hopefully keep it in place. But yeah, i guess i could be losing pressure through there i just dont see why they made it the way it is if they knew it would only make the performance worse lol

[Caveira]

Re: Upgraded BAR-10 under performing

If the thread lock doesn't work, try wrapping the grub screw with ptfe. It would be an awkward job, but may well help.

[Taylorb]

Re: Upgraded BAR-10 under performing

I don't think either of you are on the right lines here :p One thing though, do you have a bar-10 piston or a laylax piston? You said you cut the airbrake down, did you do that to the Laylax one?

providing you haven't cut up your Laylax parts, I highly doubt the issue is anything to do with the cylinder, but much more to do with the hop. If you've been mucking about with the cylinder and getting grease everywhere, and haven't even cleaned the hop what do you expect. Also I wouldn't use a Bar-10 rubber at 500fps.

I think the internals of your gun are just really unmatched to be honest.

[Rookie]

Re: Upgraded BAR-10 under performing

I don't think either of you are on the right lines here :p One thing though, do you have a bar-10 piston or a laylax piston? You said you cut the airbrake down, did you do that to the Laylax one?

providing you haven't cut up your Laylax parts, I highly doubt the issue is anything to do with the cylinder, but much more to do with the hop. If you've been mucking about with the cylinder and getting grease everywhere, and haven't even cleaned the hop what do you expect. Also I wouldn't use a Bar-10 rubber at 500fps.

I think the internals of your gun are just really unmatched to be honest.

No, i haven't cut the Laylax piston, the airbrake is unscrewable so you can have it either in our out of the piston.

[Taylorb]

Re: Upgraded BAR-10 under performing

Just leave it how it is, i wouldn't mess around with the Laylax piston - there's no need.

The compression is probably being lost at the hop up, you should check that over =]

[guard-sniper87]

Re: Upgraded BAR-10 under performing

by the sounds of it ,

the piston has the wrong size oring , remove it if is lose or if it moves freely , and replace it for a tighter fitting one , but make sure it can still move in the cylinder with ease or with a little help from lithium grease ...

with the fps drop ,
take these steps to ensure air seal complete

PTFE tape the cylinder head thread and oring , go around 7 times but tigtly so can still see the thread under it , PUT THE AIR BRAKE BACK IN , if it is full leave it as it is...

on the hop unit , on the inside of it , polish it , with either brasso or silvo and a polish drum on a dremmel , with the hop rubber on the barrel where the rubber ends and the barrel begins , wrap PTFE around this about 3 times , but again tightly, this stop air leak.
replace in the hop unit and re build,

that will boost fps and consistancy greatly , and with the 150 spring and all the upgrades you have , even with a rubbish barrel the fps should be around 450ish , then add a PDI .03 or vanaras .02 and then the fps will be around 470 with extremely better groupings .

hope that helps mate