Make the GBBR jump, or pimp out my AEG?

[gijohn2]

Re: Make the GBBR jump, or pimp out my AEG?

That WOC is in good condition! And keep the plastic nozzle! Metal nozzle was a pain in the ass, poor air seal or smashing BB's. The G&P plastic nozzles am best

[mirlock]

Re: Make the GBBR jump, or pimp out my AEG?

nice looking gun.

john knows best

[Olphy]

Re: Make the GBBR jump, or pimp out my AEG?

GBBRs are awesome but need maintenance/repairs but then it's all part of the experience.

[Knight]

Re: Make the GBBR jump, or pimp out my AEG?

I plan to clean after every game and lube before I play (snigger)

[CKinnerley]

Re: Make the GBBR jump, or pimp out my AEG?

All I can say is, after owning/using/working on 1 AGM and 3 G&P WOCs (all of which use the same WA system) I'm infinitely happier now I've got a KWA LM4. Obviously everyone has varying experiences, but WA system guns just aren't the best option for skirmishable GBBRs to my mind, not any more at least. Luck is certainly a factor and the main issue I always had was the mags (7 x G&P STANAGs + 4 x G&P PMAGs) none of which ever reliably held gas, so people who've been lucky and had mags that work with the guns using steel internals will disagree with me no doubt, but that's just what I've found. I personally wouldn't recommend a WOC to anyone who doesn't have a lot of spare cash laying around for contingencies when stuff goes wrong.

[PureSilver]

Re: Make the GBBR jump, or pimp out my AEG?

I'd definitely agree that the KWA system's much more advanced than the WA, but then again it is over a decade newer by my reckoning. Plus, the WA system was designed for the JDM (i.e. 134A, although it might even have been R-22) so it's not designed to deal with steel bolts and the like. I like the LM4 a lot, but I hate the fact that KWA make an effort to license cool guns like the Kriss, and then produce AR-15s that have this on the side:



I don't know their dimensions, either - CKinnerly, d'you know if they're RS, WA, or what?

[Knight]

Re: Make the GBBR jump, or pimp out my AEG?

Finding it difficult to find any decent KWA LM4s for sale though, and from reviews if looked at, the G&P still seems superior in some aspects, except for the mags.

- - - Updated - - -

Just to mention as well, that my main priorities were realism and reliability.
The more it makes you feel like your shooting something real, and the more heads it turns when you do, the better. However it has to be reliable enough (when looked after) to keep up with a good AEG (range and accuracy).

[Heinz]

Re: Make the GBBR jump, or pimp out my AEG?

@PureSilver

KWA LM4 is not 1:1 due to rather idiotic BATF rules in the US the LM4 receiver and bolt are shorter in design than their KSC progenitor.

[silasloki]

Re: Make the GBBR jump, or pimp out my AEG?

Sometimes I wonder if the whole realism thing can be taken too far. I mean, when people say the KWA isn't 1:1, what are we talking about? 1 maybe 2mm difference? Or are these guns like half size? And to the majority of us, what do these differences really matter? I admit, I've never held (and certainly never fired) a real M4, and while I'm the first to admit I get a chubby over the idea of owning a bang on replica, aside from the G&G guns, I have no idea how close or far a G&P rifle is to the real steel.

What KWA has done, is to adapt and survive in an environment that is becoming ever more hostile to anything related to firearms.

[PureSilver]

Re: Make the GBBR jump, or pimp out my AEG?

Sometimes I wonder if the whole realism thing can be taken too far. I mean, when people say the KWA isn't 1:1, what are we talking about? 1 maybe 2mm difference?

The 1:1 thing has more advantages with AR-15 pattern weapons than might be obvious. One of the biggest advantages with the Inokatsu/PRIME-type WAs (and regular WAs to a lesser extent) is their real-steel compatibility. That's not just cool, it's efficient - an Inokatsu upper receiver is about three times the price of a perfectly serviceable real one. There are positives beyond 'it's cool'.

However, one of the descendants of the Inokatsu - Viper - are less realistic in some ways (short-stroked bolt and the like) but are allegedly compatible with real lower receiver parts kits. That is, you could build a complete, working, .223-Remington-shooting M4gery using a Viper lower and parts that you can buy without a license or even ID in the US. THAT is taking the realism thing too far, and is probably the reason that the BATF have had something to say about the receiver and hole patterns on the LM4.

Or are these guns like half size? And to the majority of us, what do these differences really matter? I admit, I've never held (and certainly never fired) a real M4

I've never fired an M4, but I've fired an IDF M16A2 (and plenty of other guns) and frankly we're very lucky that airsoft guns aren't really that much like the real thing in some respects. The deafening noise, acrid smell and bruising kick are fine for targetry and fun, but shooting a few thousand rounds (like plenty of airsofters do over a day) with those side effects would be pretty far from my idea of fun. I don't mind if my guns are very slightly off, but even 8% can be pretty jarring. Some AEPs are much worse, and the TSI Tavor TAR-21 was something like a third bigger than it should have been...

[Knight]

Re: Make the GBBR jump, or pimp out my AEG?

I can't seem to find much info on KWAs new system, or anywhere that really sells them in this country. I'm put off by the lack of aftermarket parts, rubbish trade marks, and lack of variety. I do love the easy to repair mags though.
I have a nicely customised G&P WOC now (well 2 actually, 1 for sale!), so will see how well it lasts long term. I can't personally see massive differences, but that's because I haven't used others.


I'm VERY tempted by the RA TECH customised WE HK4168 (don't want 2 M4s!)

[Tariq182]

Re: Make the GBBR jump, or pimp out my AEG?

I'm VERY tempted by the RA TECH customised WE HK4168 (don't want 2 M4s!)

Mine arrives next week :D

[silasloki]

Re: Make the GBBR jump, or pimp out my AEG?

The 1:1 thing has more advantages with AR-15 pattern weapons than might be obvious. One of the biggest advantages with the Inokatsu/PRIME-type WAs (and regular WAs to a lesser extent) is their real-steel compatibility. That's not just cool, it's efficient - an Inokatsu upper receiver is about three times the price of a perfectly serviceable real one. There are positives beyond 'it's cool'.

However, one of the descendants of the Inokatsu - Viper - are less realistic in some ways (short-stroked bolt and the like) but are allegedly compatible with real lower receiver parts kits. That is, you could build a complete, working, .223-Remington-shooting M4gery using a Viper lower and parts that you can buy without a license or even ID in the US. THAT is taking the realism thing too far, and is probably the reason that the BATF have had something to say about the receiver and hole patterns on the LM4.

I understand, but I'm talking from a purely British (and probably most other countries) when I made the comment about 1:1 dimensions. In the UK, it's a nice to have, I can't imagine how I'd obtain a real steel upper receiver and not run the risk of trouble. And, I'd bet they're (real steel uppers) are not cheap in the UK, providing you could get them.

I've never fired an M4, but I've fired an IDF M16A2 (and plenty of other guns) and frankly we're very lucky that airsoft guns aren't really that much like the real thing in some respects. The deafening noise, acrid smell and bruising kick are fine for targetry and fun, but shooting a few thousand rounds (like plenty of airsofters do over a day) with those side effects would be pretty far from my idea of fun. I don't mind if my guns are very slightly off, but even 8% can be pretty jarring. Some AEPs are much worse, and the TSI Tavor TAR-21 was something like a third bigger than it should have been...

No doubt. However, I wasn't talking about end operation realism, but more to do with weight, centre of mass, dimensions, finishes......the cosmetic and surface attributes. I realise King Arms, Classic Army, KWA, et all. are probably some degree removed from being 100% replicas, but, I'm willing to bet it's not far off.

[Ragemelon]

Re: Make the GBBR jump, or pimp out my AEG?

GHK co2 mags are the end to your cold weather problems, the plastic feed lips are something to consider and also the tight fit in most rifles... but the tradeoff is certainly worth it in my eyes.

And if you must have P-mags, you can go through a lot of work to modify your GHK co2 mags to fit into RS P-mag shells. It's not really necessary but it's a nice look if that's what you're after.

[Knight]

Re: Make the GBBR jump, or pimp out my AEG?

Mine arrives next week :D

Darn you! Rude words!

Haha, let me know how it performs. Wanted that because I love the hk416 look, and the upgrades are all already done

Not sure how it will perform in a game next to a WOC though.