Looking for guidance on RIF/IF airsoft

[Fizzy]

Re: Looking for guidance on RIF/IF airsoft

What he said! ^^^

It was blindingly obvious what the OP meant (to me at least)

What you missed what the fact I said "because we know that's not going to be the case"

[seansamurai1]

Re: Looking for guidance on RIF/IF airsoft

Yes I noted the quotes and was well aware of what he was likely implying. But my question was about why it's illegal for someone to buy a RIF or IF on behalf of someone else. What is that based on? Legislation? Case law?

Still missing the point. Correct me if Im wrong, if the friend is a registered skirmisher and gifts a RIF to the OP, then I cant see anything wrong with that as long as the OPs parents are happy for this to happen, however, what myself and fizzy are getting at is it was implied "Im not going to pay anything for this *until next week in small installments*, Honestly".

However, should this be done without parents permission and above board and official, then there are moral issues to be raised.

[Fil]

Re: Looking for guidance on RIF/IF airsoft

Still missing the point. Correct me if Im wrong, if the friend is a registered skirmisher and gifts a RIF to the OP, then I cant see anything wrong with that as long as the OPs parents are happy for this to happen, however, what myself and fizzy are getting at is it was implied "Im not going to pay anything for this *until next week in small installments*, Honestly".

However, should this be done without parents permission and above board and official, then there are moral issues to be raised.

I know exactly what you're getting at was implied. And I know exactly why fizzy responded to him as he did. But the question I'm asking is what is the basis for the view/claim that giving money to someone to purchase a RIF or IF on your behalf is illegal? Why as a 'community' are we telling people that they can't have a RIF or IF bought on their behalf by someone over 18 and/or is a registered skirmisher? Is it because of legislation/case law? Or is it based on something else?

[Machaon]

Re: Looking for guidance on RIF/IF airsoft

Precursory note: I have quoted the thread's original post, but I am speaking about the quoted poster's general attitude, as perceived based on the entirety of his posts in this thread thus far.

i bet your all ready thinking 'some kid who wants to look cool to his mates'

Yep, that's exactly what I was thinking, and, to be brutally honest, I've not been proved wrong.

A bit of paint isn't going to stop you undertaking a Designated Marksman or Sniper role. Being blind, or incapable of holding a gun would stop you becoming a DM/Sniper. A bit of paint is stopping you from looking cool to all your mates. That's the simple truth, as I see it, reading between the lines, (incidentally) poor grammar and the quotation marks.

You're also basically stating, in the public domain, that you intend to dodge the law, and asking for assistance in order to do this. You're probably too immature to understand the full consequences of your actions, which is reason enough in itself (in my most brutally honest opinion) for you not to be playing airsoft.

[Fizzy]

Re: Looking for guidance on RIF/IF airsoft

I know exactly what you're getting at was implied. And I know exactly why fizzy responded to him as he did. But the question I'm asking is what is the basis for the view/claim that giving money to someone to purchase a RIF or IF on your behalf is illegal? Why as a 'community' are we telling people that they can't have a RIF or IF bought on their behalf by someone over 18 and/or is a registered skirmisher? Is it because of legislation/case law? Or is it based on something else?

Is taking money from the 14 year olds outside Tesco, buying cigarettes on their behalf and then giving them the cigarettes legal?

[Fil]

Re: Looking for guidance on RIF/IF airsoft

Is taking money from the 14 year olds outside Tesco, buying cigarettes on their behalf and then giving them the cigarettes legal?

As far as I'm aware it is. Unless you happen to be in Scotland which has had new laws introduced in the past few years to make it illegal.

[Machaon]

Re: Looking for guidance on RIF/IF airsoft

As far as I'm aware it is. Unless you happen to be in Scotland which has had new laws introduced in the past few years to make it illegal.

Correct, it is still currently legal. Citation. Sadly it's a loophole the Government have thus far neglected to close.

However, buying alcohol for under 18s is illegal. As both alcohol and IFs/RIFs are age-restricted products, it seems a reasonable assumption (even without knowing the VCRA explicitly) that to attempt to proxy-buy imitation firearms for minors is against the law.

[Fil]

Re: Looking for guidance on RIF/IF airsoft

Correct, it is still currently legal. Citation. Sadly it's a loophole the Government have thus far neglected to close.

However, buying alcohol for under 18s is illegal. As both alcohol and IFs/RIFs are age-restricted products, it seems a reasonable assumption (even without knowing the VCRA explicitly) that to attempt to proxy-buy imitation firearms for minors is against the law.

Cigarettes are an age-restricted product as well. Why is it more reasonable to assume that the purchase of IFs/RIFs would operate in the same fashion as alcohol rather than cigarettes? Knives are also an age-restricted product but I don't think it's illegal to purchase one on behalf of someone under 18 either. In fact I think alcohol may currently be an exception rather than a rule when it comes to proxy purchase and age-restricted products.

Also I believe the proxy purchase of alcohol has only been illegal since the introduction of legislation in 2000 or thereabouts which created a specific offence of purchasing on behalf of someone under the age of 18. Which is the same way as Scotland has now made the proxy purchase of cigarettes illegal. Without an offence of that nature the act of proxy purchasing appears to be legal and I don't believe the VCRA includes such an offence. Which is why I'm intrigued as to where the claim that a proxy purchase of an IF or RIF is illegal has come from and what it's based on.

[BAMF]

Re: Looking for guidance on RIF/IF airsoft

Cigarettes are an age-restricted product as well. Why is it more reasonable to assume that the purchase of IFs/RIFs would operate in the same fashion as alcohol rather than cigarettes? Knives are also an age-restricted product but I don't think it's illegal to purchase one on behalf of someone under 18 either. In fact I think alcohol may currently be an exception rather than a rule when it comes to proxy purchase and age-restricted products.

Also I believe the proxy purchase of alcohol has only been illegal since the introduction of legislation in 2000 or thereabouts which created a specific offence of purchasing on behalf of someone under the age of 18. Which is the same way as Scotland has now made the proxy purchase of cigarettes illegal. Without an offence of that nature the act of proxy purchasing appears to be legal and I don't believe the VCRA includes such an offence. Which is why I'm intrigued as to where the claim that a proxy purchase of an IF or RIF is illegal has come from and what it's based on.

The OP has his answer Fil.



Seriously.

[starscream]

Buying age restricted items on behalf of minors is illegal. Regardless of what it is. Be it tobacco, alcohol, or RIF's/IF's.

[BAMF]

Re: Looking for guidance on RIF/IF airsoft

Buying age restricted items on behalf of minors is illegal. Regardless of what it is. Be it tobacco, alcohol, or RIF's/IF's.

Unless you can quote verbatim the exact section of legislation or some far fetched case study. Fil will not be interested in your comment.

We all (By "We all" I mean those with an ounce of common sense) know it's morally repugnant to purchase any of the items you mention for a minor, but there are people out there who do it. Who knows, Fil himself may be one of them, as he states there is no actual legislation and quotes Fizzy, stating it's actually legal. Yet, in his next post, he mentions the "Proxy purchase" which he says was introduced in 2000, thus making it Illegal?

Contradictory much? I certainly think so.

[Fil]

Re: Looking for guidance on RIF/IF airsoft

Unless you can quote verbatim the exact section of legislation or some far fetched case study. Fil will not be interested in your comment.

We all (By "We all" I mean those with an ounce of common sense) know it's morally repugnant to purchase any of the items you mention for a minor, but there are people out there who do it. Who knows, Fil himself may be one of them, as he states there is no actual legislation and quotes Fizzy, stating it's actually legal. Yet, in his next post, he mentions the "Proxy purchase" which he says was introduced in 2000, thus making it Illegal?

Contradictory much? I certainly think so.

I don't require anyone to quote anything verbatim or find any far fetched case study before I'm interested in their comment. But if people aren't able to support their own argument/statements then really why should others be interested?

And to be honest if you're going to try and claim I'm being contradictory you could do a better job of reading what I've actually said. There's nothing contradictory about saying that an offence against proxy purchasing was introduced in 2000 in relation to alcohol but that there doesn't appear to be an analogous offence in respect of RIFs/IFs.

[starscream]

I have a few friends who are officers of the law. And a few who are pub landlords.

If you are to buy alcohol, porn or tobacco on behalf of a minor, you face a £5000 fine, and get a criminal record. It really is that simple. Also, the person selling the products would also receive the same treatment, lose their job, or even their business.

[blytm]

Re: Looking for guidance on RIF/IF airsoft

Sorry Chaps but the OP has his answer and this is just turning in to the usual internet lawyer fight.