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Playing with RIFS without UKARA
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theplatypus
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Sep 2014
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#1
Playing with RIFS without UKARA
11 February, 2015, 08:40
Hey guys,
I have recently come to owning a couple of RIFS. Now as I under stand it UKARA only covers the purchase and as proof you can transport the gun in public. So what I want to know is, can I use those guns at a skirmmish without owning a UKARA?
fish6634
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#2
11 February, 2015, 08:43
Re: Playing with RIFS without UKARA
Where the guns given to you as a gift?
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theplatypus
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#3
11 February, 2015, 08:45
Re: Playing with RIFS without UKARA
No, they were bought second hand
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Proto
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#4
11 February, 2015, 09:08
Re: Playing with RIFS without UKARA
They were sold to you illegally if you're not a regular skirmisher and you only need good reason to transport a RIF, UKARA and the VCRA are irrelevant.
Originally posted by
Lt. Macka
big black shapes draw the eye.
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fish6634
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#5
11 February, 2015, 09:11
Re: Playing with RIFS without UKARA
As far as i am aware and i only know what i have read on here about the subject is that if someone gives you a RIF or gifts you one then your ok as crazy as it sounds, i think that the buyer is ok to buy one as its the seller that needs the defence incase of any come backs that he looked into your background ie ukara registered. I think you are ok to play with a RIF too as far as i am aware two toning needs to be done when selling to someone without ukara, if you have managed to buy one non two toned i dont think there will be a problem using it in a skirmish.
There is a completely different ball game of buying two tone and changing the parts to black and manufacturing a RIF even then i dont think there is an issue with playing.
Saying that buying RIF without UKARA and manufacturing one are frowned upon
Someone feel free to correct me on the above if i am wrong as i am not 100% sure on the law myself, with regards to defence who is???
Last edited by
fish6634
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11 February, 2015, 09:13
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spelling mistake
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theplatypus
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#6
11 February, 2015, 09:25
Re: Playing with RIFS without UKARA
I thought the sale of RIFs only covered commercial sale, not peer to peer?
- - - Updated - - -
I'd like to think you're right fish! haha
Last edited by
theplatypus
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11 February, 2015, 09:38
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fish6634
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#7
11 February, 2015, 10:28
Re: Playing with RIFS without UKARA
it think its peer to peer too mate
i always get asked for mine on here with regards to sales
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HitmanNo2
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#8
11 February, 2015, 10:33
Re: Playing with RIFS without UKARA
Jesus. Whoever sold you those could get into a lot of trouble, not to mention our spobby on the whole...
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Figjam
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#9
11 February, 2015, 10:52
Re: Playing with RIFS without UKARA
Isn't it the case that both the vendor and purchaser have committed a criminal offence if the purchaser doesn't have a valid defence?
But yeah, it only counts for sales. Your continued ownership doesn't make it worse. So I'd just rock on and try not to break any more laws. Keep your RIF out of sight on the way to and from your skirmish, and perhaps don't talk any more about how you got your RIFs without a solicitor present.
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theplatypus
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#10
11 February, 2015, 10:57
Re: Playing with RIFS without UKARA
But I cant see anything in the law about peer to peer or gifting. It seems to only address retailers. But thats not the issue. My question is using them on the field. I go to ground zero
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colinjallen
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#11
11 February, 2015, 11:00
Re: Playing with RIFS without UKARA
The first thing to understand is that the VCRA is a very badly written piece of legislation that, with regard to RIFs at least, makes no sense whatever.
However, it states in section 36:
A person is guilty of an offence if— .
(a)he manufactures a realistic imitation firearm; .
(b)he modifies an imitation firearm so that it becomes a realistic imitation firearm; .
(c)he sells a realistic imitation firearm; or .
(d)he brings a realistic imitation firearm into Great Britain or causes one to be brought into Great Britain.
Anyone who sells a RIF is breaking the law. Therefore, peer to peer sales are illegal as well. Gifting is fine and a RIF can be gifted to someone under 18 as the act only mentions selling and purchasing.
However, there is a defence against prosecution under "the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 (Realistic Imitation Firearms) Regulations 2007":
3.—(1) It shall be a defence in proceedings for an offence under section 36 of the 2006 Act or under paragraph 4 of Schedule 2 to that Act for the person charged with the offence to show that his conduct was for the purpose only of making the imitation firearm in question available for one or more of the purposes specified in paragraph (2).
(2) Those purposes are—
(a)the organisation and holding of permitted activities for which public liability insurance is held in relation to liabilities to third parties arising from or in connection with the organisation and holding of those activities; .
(b)the purposes of display at a permitted event.
These only apply if the buyer is 18 or over as selling a RIF or an IF to someone under 18 is illegal, regardless of the defence. It is also illegal for someone under 18 to buy a RIF or IF.
You do not need UKARA to use them at a skirmish; in fact you do not need UKARA to buy a RIF as the seller only has to satisfy themselves that you are using it for the purpose of skirmishing. UKARA is only one way of trying to do that. You can also transport a RIF as long as it is not visible "in public".
The person(s) who sold you the RIFs was/were breaking the law and could be imprisoned for up to 51 months if they were not so assured.
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Figjam
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#12
11 February, 2015, 11:02
Re: Playing with RIFS without UKARA
Also, here's the thing. The criteria for a legal defence is just that you can prove that you've bought your RIF for the purposes of airsoft (or re-enactment, film or theatre). UKARA is just one way to prove it, that is the way that retailers insist on, but you see plenty of sellers here going for other methods, like just wanting to call the site you have a membership at to prove it. By that token, I think if you have bought your RIF with the intention of skirmishing with it, you've not broken the law factually, you just have a problem proving it legally right now (quite an important difference). Get to a skirmish, get a membership, get UKARA, and you'll have all that proof.
Most important, don't be a dick: we had a guy a couple of years back get stopped on his way to a skirmish because he'd put his dragunov on the passenger seat and then forgotten he needed petrol. The petrol station were straight on to the police.
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colinjallen
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#13
11 February, 2015, 11:06
Re: Playing with RIFS without UKARA
"The criteria for a legal defence is just that you can prove that you've bought your RIF for the purposes of airsoft (or re-enactment, film or theatre)."
The buyer does not need a defence; the seller does.
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N_Scooby
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#14
11 February, 2015, 11:09
Re: Playing with RIFS without UKARA
Originally posted by
Figjam
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Isn't it the case that both the vendor and purchaser have committed a criminal offence if the purchaser doesn't have a valid defence?
But yeah, it only counts for sales. Your continued ownership doesn't make it worse. So I'd just rock on and try not to break any more laws. Keep your RIF out of sight on the way to and from your skirmish, and perhaps don't talk any more about how you got your RIFs without a solicitor present.
No. Only the seller has committed the offence. The buyer is providing the seller with a defence against prosecution.
The only time this is different is if the buyer is under 18, as it is an offence for an under 18 to buy a RIF. This time both the buyer and seller have committed offences.
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theplatypus
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#15
11 February, 2015, 11:52
Re: Playing with RIFS without UKARA
Thanks guys for all of the information! I do have a gun bag that fits all on my guns (one sniper, a g33, and my trusty 1911) so there will be no way for them to see what I have. Im 22 so the age thing is not a problem. I would really like to get my UKARA, but I work full time at a hospital so I dont have time to do the 3 games in 2 months. Might book some holiday on the mondays after
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